I think we sometimes forget that the events just prior to the journey back in time for Nero are meant to take place not too long after the events seen in Nemesis.
Post Nemesis
- Thread starter Photon
- Start date
Yo umean the E-D. But anyway your point is taken, sir. So tell me what is your favorite thing about the Borg? Should they have had even more appearances in film and on series?
I think that DS9 showed about as much of the Borg as we should have seen post BOBW!
Nah, I think that one film was about right, and that (aside from the Queen) FC treated the Borg as they should have...the ship is tough, but it's not invincible and can be worked down by attrition - as the fleet did...
My only problem with the Borg Queen is that she became Picard's Psycho Ex, and that seemed wrong...I don't think it was necessary to show her in order to establish the villian , or what was at stake!
In Voyager...I think that Scorpion was about right, then the rest of the Borg comes down to what you think of Seven of Nine. I think Seven was a good move (I wouldn't have put her in that cat suit, but that's just me - don't get me wrong I'm appreciative of Jeri Ryan's figure, but after an episode or two I stop noticing and it becomes silly, and if you're trying to get viewers like *that* and you think it'll ensure people come back, you're an idiot...but I digress)
I think she should have stayed in the Borg skin for longer, choosing to remove it rather than having it forced upon her by Janeway. All through we have Seven standing out as different, and not in an "I'm an individual" kind of way, in an "I don't fit in here" kind of way, and her treatment at the hands of Torres (Calling her, "The Drone" "The Borg" etc) and being forced to live in a Cargo Bay ("Can I have somewhere to put personal effects?" "No") It's all just wrong...
And after Dark Frontier, Seven should have started using her human name again, the declaration "I am Annika Hanson, human" was a pivotal one, it was her casting off the shackles of the Collective and throwing her lot in with Voyager, yet she continues to use her slave name...it's just wrong...
I also think that Harry should have been killed in Scorpion - it's clear that Seven replaces Harry with her role on the ship...spend season 4 with bit-parts playing the ops officer, and then have Seven take up the role at the start of Season 5.
Unimatrix Zero was good as a romp, and I suppose it gave us some insight into Seven... but Endgame was a mistake in my opinion. The Borg were not a key part of that story, they were an extra and the Borg should never be an extra...they are a force to be reckoned with, and when they become an incidental...It should have been Suspiria, bookend the series that way...
Nah, I think that one film was about right, and that (aside from the Queen) FC treated the Borg as they should have...the ship is tough, but it's not invincible and can be worked down by attrition - as the fleet did...
My only problem with the Borg Queen is that she became Picard's Psycho Ex, and that seemed wrong...I don't think it was necessary to show her in order to establish the villian , or what was at stake!
In Voyager...I think that Scorpion was about right, then the rest of the Borg comes down to what you think of Seven of Nine. I think Seven was a good move (I wouldn't have put her in that cat suit, but that's just me - don't get me wrong I'm appreciative of Jeri Ryan's figure, but after an episode or two I stop noticing and it becomes silly, and if you're trying to get viewers like *that* and you think it'll ensure people come back, you're an idiot...but I digress)
I think she should have stayed in the Borg skin for longer, choosing to remove it rather than having it forced upon her by Janeway. All through we have Seven standing out as different, and not in an "I'm an individual" kind of way, in an "I don't fit in here" kind of way, and her treatment at the hands of Torres (Calling her, "The Drone" "The Borg" etc) and being forced to live in a Cargo Bay ("Can I have somewhere to put personal effects?" "No") It's all just wrong...
And after Dark Frontier, Seven should have started using her human name again, the declaration "I am Annika Hanson, human" was a pivotal one, it was her casting off the shackles of the Collective and throwing her lot in with Voyager, yet she continues to use her slave name...it's just wrong...
I also think that Harry should have been killed in Scorpion - it's clear that Seven replaces Harry with her role on the ship...spend season 4 with bit-parts playing the ops officer, and then have Seven take up the role at the start of Season 5.
Unimatrix Zero was good as a romp, and I suppose it gave us some insight into Seven... but Endgame was a mistake in my opinion. The Borg were not a key part of that story, they were an extra and the Borg should never be an extra...they are a force to be reckoned with, and when they become an incidental...It should have been Suspiria, bookend the series that way...
And then Spock will turn off the nasty supernova with red matter. And then Spock, red matter, and Nero will travel to the past. And then Nero will capture Spock and the red matter.
And then Nero will capture Pike and yell at him "I PREVENTED genocide!"
It seems quite possible that Romulus is safe again, then: Nero had the red matter, and he could have flown to the nasty supernova and nipped it in the bud, long before it even exploded. Sure, his own future would still be dust, his family dead. But Romulus would live, in a slightly altered form, in an altered timeline.
It's just that the other things Nero did would have had such an effect on that timeline that there will probably be no TNG: no Picard, no Sela or Neral or Donatra or Vreenak or other such youngsters, nothing recognizable about the new 2387 or about its still surviving Romulus - and the possibly still surviving Sarek (if he gets cured of his syndrome in time) and Spock (if he manages to repeat all those astounding feats of dodging the death inherent in his profession).
Timo Saloniemi
And then Nero will capture Pike and yell at him "I PREVENTED genocide!"
It seems quite possible that Romulus is safe again, then: Nero had the red matter, and he could have flown to the nasty supernova and nipped it in the bud, long before it even exploded. Sure, his own future would still be dust, his family dead. But Romulus would live, in a slightly altered form, in an altered timeline.
It's just that the other things Nero did would have had such an effect on that timeline that there will probably be no TNG: no Picard, no Sela or Neral or Donatra or Vreenak or other such youngsters, nothing recognizable about the new 2387 or about its still surviving Romulus - and the possibly still surviving Sarek (if he gets cured of his syndrome in time) and Spock (if he manages to repeat all those astounding feats of dodging the death inherent in his profession).
Timo Saloniemi
Remember why Nero was so pissed off in STXI? And Spock Prime's mindmeld flashforward? That's what happened to Romulus. Fizz boom. The end.
The novels aren't quite there yet (their timeline is only up to 2383, the supernova's in 2387), but in the mean time the Empire split in two, reunified, and joined the Typhon Pact (which is like the United Federation of Baddies, and includes the Tzenkethi, the Gorn and the Tholians)
In Trek, a great many phenomena go at faster than light speeds. The Praxis explosion, the ion storm in "The Catwalk" etc.
Trek is pretty consistent about really big explosions also having a "subspace component" and effects that propagate FTL. The problem with STXI is that the big explosion there was called "supernova", and we can tell from experience that an ordinary supernova doesn't have a FTL component. They should have chosen a fancier name for a "special" kind of supernova that was meaner than the usual sort.
On the other hand, we could just say that the supernova wasn't in another system. That's never said in the movie, after all - and the propagation of destruction there is shown to be really slow, much slower than lightspeed, at least when Romulus gets pulverized. Probably it was the homestar of the Romulans that blew, and the "galaxy-threatening" effects didn't come from a warp-speed shockwave, but from the fact that Romulus getting blown up would mean trouble for the entire galaxy. Or for the usual suspects in the local 'hood anyway, but one should allow a little bit of hyperbole for our favorite Vulcan, this rare once.
Timo Saloniemi
On the other hand, we could just say that the supernova wasn't in another system. That's never said in the movie, after all - and the propagation of destruction there is shown to be really slow, much slower than lightspeed, at least when Romulus gets pulverized. Probably it was the homestar of the Romulans that blew, and the "galaxy-threatening" effects didn't come from a warp-speed shockwave, but from the fact that Romulus getting blown up would mean trouble for the entire galaxy. Or for the usual suspects in the local 'hood anyway, but one should allow a little bit of hyperbole for our favorite Vulcan, this rare once.
Timo Saloniemi
Thank you so much for the hard thought you put into this post friend!Excuse the late reply I've been busy offline. I agree the Queen was an unncessary inclusion as the Borg were doing just fine as faceless monsters but the makers of FC did not think so so they put in a leader for the Collective. I think introducing the Queen as as you say giving he a backstory with Picard was too much, overkill in my opinion. But Seven if Nine was a breath of fresh air once they got past her looks, and I am one who does not believe Voyager ruined or weakened the Borg. There was after all only so much you could do with them in the first place.
Again, thanks for such a well worded post.
Take a look at this article, scale it up by 5x and make it FTL, and you've got your "galaxy threatening" (or at least Federation/Klingon/Romulan space threatening) supernova.
To say it was only Romulus at risk, and the galaxy-threatening stuff is hyperbole, is refuted in the movie by Spock's "I had little time" after Romulus dies, and that he bothered to absorb the exploding star at all once his immediate mission failed.
On the subject of the novels, I'm really hoping they don't follow the STXI/ST Online "history" (there is already divergence between them). I think destroying Romulas was lazy and stupid.
The novels have to follow canon, which says Romulus was destroyed in 2387. Their post-Nemesis continuity is already different to that of Star Trek Online.
Yeah she did a great job of that, went and got herself assimilated (Before Dishonor)
That is the book my friend, we were speaking of Endgame or so I thought at the time...... *sits on lump of rock, confused*
But the book which I have yet to read sounds groovy in its own right too.
But the book which I have yet to read sounds groovy in its own right too.
The only way around 'teh canon' would be for them to say that the timeline that spock prime came from was not the same as what has been previously explored. Its is a reboot after all, so it could be claimed that we're dealing with 2 new timelines altogether. That way the novels can go where they like with it.
IMO the Romulans were by far the most interesting bad guys, I'd of liked to see more of them really, or at least more exploration of their empire and culture
IMO the Romulans were by far the most interesting bad guys, I'd of liked to see more of them really, or at least more exploration of their empire and culture
