Spoilers Possible Concept Art?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Philip Guyott, Oct 2, 2016.

  1. Philip Guyott

    Philip Guyott Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There has been a rumour going around for a while now that these are concept drawings for Star Trek Discovery.

    What do you think?

    Please do not view them if you don't want to see spoilers as you never know, they could turn out to be genuine.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Note: The last two images are by a different artist to the first three

    Here is a bit of background information to the rumour: Link (pictures have since been removed)

    Edit: I just found out that this had also been discussed in the 'Future of Trek' forum before the 'Star Trek Discovery' forum was started and had not been transferred across. Here is the original thread: Link
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  2. Jesse1066

    Jesse1066 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Reminds me of Warhammer 40K, honestly.
     
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  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see the Prime universe Klingons having ships that massive.
     
  4. Psion

    Psion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    These look familiar. I've seen them before ... I think someone was floating them as concept drawings for J.J.'s first Trek movie back in 2007 or 2008.
     
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  5. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    My thought exactly! It looks like something directly out of 40K Battlefleet Gothic:

    http://www.solegends.com/citcat2005spc/c2005spcp0052-02.htm

    http://www.solegends.com/citcat2005spc/c2005spcp0056-02.htm

    http://www.solegends.com/citcat2005spc/c2005spcp0061-02.htm

    http://www.solegends.com/citcat2005spc/c2005spcp0060-02.htm

    You combine the gothic baroque space cathedrals of the W40K Imperial Navy/Chaos Warfleet with the organic batwings of the Eldar and voila! You have 2017 Klingon "sarcophagus" ships!
     
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  6. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Never liked them.
    As design work or artwork, they strike me as bit ...lazy...technique wise. These bigger versions even show that the painting out was shoddy. The digital equivalent of tippex all over the place. As quick and dirty concepts...before some actual real work is done...yeah...maybe.

    The bridge design has ideas like 'navigator gun' which...don't make a lot of sense. When you sit them next to design work from earlier Treks, they pale horribly. The idea of equating gothic cathedrals with Klingons isn't a bad one, but not like this. There's such little thought, that the symmetry is the result of using software to be able to thumbnail and cover a whole space without any thought as to why....granted, symmetry is the in thing in modern TV, particularly looking at Hannibal and Sherlock, but that is symmetry from deliberately framing the real world in a symmetrical way, not overt designed symmetry. The figures, whilst just being used to demonstrate the scale of the bridge, are pretty awful (again, go back to the wealth of concept art from earlie Treks. If they can do that for the outside of discovery, they may as well for other things.) and the bridge is designed purely from the point of view of form, with function being an afterthought. Historically, Trek starts from function in its designs, and then goes to form (things that go against that, like the distinctive wooden arch on the enterprise d, are usually over hangs in the design process, or a result of a different function in the design....like having natural wood be a part of future aesthetics. Worf having to have a jog to protect the Captain are a remnant of the earlier coffee shop bridge designs still having an influence.)

    It's a flaw in much modern design, particularly in an era where cgi can make mock ups fast and extend sets. I think Trek has a wealth of design work that we can see, and new designers should always ask themselves 'how does my stuff sit next to these'. You can be stylistically different, but you cannot look lazy or less proficient, because if your plan is to continue a franchise, or even reboot it, you cannot aim at a significantly lower bar than the original if you want to be successful. The designers of today are not Syd Mead or Zimmermans, or Jeffries, but...neither were they in their day. They worked.
    And I say as an artist who uses digital tools as well as traditional, don't use short cuts to the point that it's obvious you are doing so. No amount of liquefying shots of cathedrals is going to make your work look good, it's just going to cover the page. You have to work. As it stands, they would have to credit half that work to unnamed Norman artisans, (unless its 3D models from games like sky rim XD) not to the 'concept artist'.

    I lost all respect for one of the modern Trek concept artists when I saw him working on Face Off (not because he is in face off...literally the episode where we saw him working on a make up concept. While the artists went and di actual work.)

    TL;DR : could do a lot better. Do homework designer guys.
     
  7. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dunno if this will work, but just to show I a not shooting my mouth off (well, not totally) here is something I did for competition, with an uncannily similar shape. I am probably too influenced by Trek considering it's a non Trek design, and I am by no means a professional (I.e it wouldn't be good enough for a Trek show either, but I have improved since then....but then I am not paid to do these things.)

    http://fav.me/d30pdcg
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  8. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    The first 3 are signed by artist Samuel Michlap. According to IMDb, Samuel Michlap didn't work in Star Trek '09 (or Into Darkness and Beyond for that matter), but he is credited in Star Trek Discovery as vehicle concept illustrator in the art department.
     
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  9. Philip Guyott

    Philip Guyott Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am intrigued by the idea of a Klingon Sarcophagus ship though, even if I am not taken with the concept art. Rather than being a regular ship of the line it could be purely ceremonial, designed to carry the mummified remains of an influential Klingon to the afterlife (a literal barge of the dead). In the TNG the Klingon’s were not concerned with ritualistic burials believing that a lifeless body is nothing more than an empty shell. However ancient Klingon’s may not have felt the same way. A Klingon mummification glyph from the Zanxthkolt Dynasty was seen in Star Trek IV.

    I joked earlier in another thread that perhaps the ship contains the mummified remains of the Klingon warrior Molor who was killed by Kahless. The head was later stolen and put it on display on Maranga IV! :klingon:

    The other thought is that the ship may carry some kind of cryogenic sarcophagus. Perhaps it contains a Klingon Captain from the past. Hopefully when the sarcophagus is opened the eyes of the person inside won't start to glow!

    [​IMG]
    That could well be true. However the second image has "Star Trek TV" written on it (but I suppose anyone could have written that). Also the last two images are dated '16.
    Nice design :bolian:
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
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  10. In Thy Image

    In Thy Image Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I wonder if anybody from the old Star Trek Art Department is working on Discovery, at least in advisory role. People like Okuda, Sternbach, Drexler, Probert, etc. Writers room seems like a good mix of old and new, and it would be great to see a similar approach in art department.
     
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  11. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    No unfortunately. It's all new people. Production Design by Mark Worthington. And Stephen Paisley, Marina Abramyan, Amro Attia and Sam Michlap in the Art Department.

    At least Kevin Quattro who is the Visual Effects CG Supervisor is a Star Trek "veteran".
     
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  12. In Thy Image

    In Thy Image Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I've just remembered that Trekmovie also mentioned John Eaves in their infographic http://trekmovie.com/2016/09/07/eve...star-trek-discovery-in-one-handy-infographic/ Not sure if this is confirmed or not. Well, hopefully, the new guys will be worthy successors. I'm not very impressed by the concepts linked here, but they are just concepts. They may also make more sense when we find out more about the plot.
     
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  13. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    I hope it's true [the part about John Eaves involvement].

    There's also of course Sir Ken Adam and Ralph McQuarrie. Something tells me those 2 youngsters will have a long successful career ahead of them! ;) :lol:
     
  14. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't it more true to say they are just using their stuff from nearly 40 years ago?
     
  15. LisbonPlayer

    LisbonPlayer Commander Red Shirt

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    Just checked Eaves resume on his site:
    So we will have at least a veteran from the old art department.
    I wonder if Eaves had a hand at the Discovery.
     
  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh that is exciting.
     
  17. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    I was joking of course. But why shouldn't they? After all, Sir Ken Adam is still an influence in James Bond movies 40-50 years later and in Star Wars they still use Ralph McQuarrie concept art 30-40 years after.
     
  18. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Largely because the job they got paid for isn't Discovery. Work for hire I grant you, designs remain property of yada yada, but ultimately if Discovery is success, using their work as base, they aren't gonna get any benefit from it. It also affects the design industry in the sense you can be paid x, with the prospect of more work etc, project fails....but x number of years down the line, your work is reused and you don't see any credit or benefit (look at fuller dodging the question about that design...even if the reality is it's more like a delta ship from enterprise with a saucer glued on) then it's gonna make designers wary of signing up for projects by the same people or for the same franchises. There's a difference between what we are calling Touchstones and just pulling stuff out a drawer, and it's a fine fine line on this one. The Ralph McQuarrie stuff on Star Wars is different, he set up the whole shebang in 77 , so he will get recognition even when it's just people working in his style on a Star Wars project....I don't expect Matt Jeffries to get credit for recent Trek ships just because he set the design language.

    I guess there's a difference between Easter egging a ship, or using a similar ship in extended media as a sort of Easter egg, and just pulling up an old design fans find intriguing. I am normally pro keeping your fan bases happy, but I think this idea is a misfire in that regard. It's one of the negatives on my expectations for the show at the moment. Sort of like when, in the run up to Enterprise, they proudly announced they had saved money by using a car dashboard or something as the main engineering panel. It never bodes well. When Voyager launched, the team were excited about doing new things, new transporter effects, trying out different Matt shots working digitally...the only handmedown they crowed about was having some TOS transporter roundel being a part of the new transporter room set as a sort of heirloom. Everything else was 'look how new and shiny we are, we are spending money on making this the best we can' and then for Enterprise it was 'look how much money we are saving and trying to look a bit shoestring cheesey...just how you imagine TOS was!' And now with Discovery there's an element of that again 'we haven't reallly designed anything new yet, just dusted off some old stuff you fans might recognise! Look! Chair like the movies! Ship like some stuff we threw in the bin but printed in books! Antennae, which will always always look hokey! '
    It gives me some concerns about the design decisions being made, regardless of its setting, which makes me not quite as excited as I would be....especially magnified by the new delay, the lack of cast info or any new trailers as yet.
    Am not even going to mention the Axanar debacle, as I always thought that looked dull, and was right behind it being shut down....but with the clampdown on fan films, all of which have some overlap with Discoverys setting (at least the biggest ones do, except Renegades) it's all starting to feel a bit....rough round the edges.
    I need to see some promo stuff soon, to boost up my inner fan hype and hope reactor....
     
  19. Kevin Wolff

    Kevin Wolff Captain Captain

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    I saw these and thought I didn't like them per sé, but they got me thinking I'd like to see a more "forged in fire" look for the Klingon ships. All of their prime ships have a manufactured look just like their federation counterparts which doesn't seem to fit with any incarnation of the Klingons we've seen.

    I began to picture a sea of blacksmiths pounding away at a fiery shipyard/forge. Ships that aren't made to perfect specs, and therefore perform at varying levels and look slightly different even among the same class, allowing some ships to become as legendary as the Klingons who commanded them in battle. Computer and control systems would probably have to be outsourced. :klingon:
     
  20. Kevin Wolff

    Kevin Wolff Captain Captain

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    Also, maybe play up the feudal great houses aspect more, and the corrupt high council less. Have the ships decorated according to the great house that built them, not a uniform navy look like how the federation does it.

    Maybe give them different, or no shield tech. Perhaps their composites can act more as shields like polarized hull plating in ENT (only better and more comparable to TOS era shields), so that their ships can proudly wear scars received in battle and are not perceived as hiding inside a safety bubble which might seem cowardly by their standards.
     
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