Population control

[UncleRogi]

It seems to me that overpopulation is a proximate cause of most world problems these days,
and there doesn't seem to a good, morally sound solution. In Trek, we have Kodos and Gideon,
neither of which very helpful. There is a conspiracy theory out there that Pope John Paul I was
killed for daring to allow contraception in the Church to address this issue.

The world at large doesn't want to think about this. Now, this isn't about abortion. What I'm trying (and failing) to do is come up with a workable solution.

I don't think there is one. The likeliest outcome, barring a super volcano event, would seem
we are heading to a massive untreatable pandemic due to over crowding.

Has any one here given this serious thought? I'd like to hear what the Community has to say about
possible solutions.

 

[Finn]

Your post is hard to read and follow for one...

 

[UncleRogi]

Your post is hard to read and follow for one...

Sorry. I seem to be in a war with my virtual tablet keyboard. It seems to have editorial subroutines.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

1 Universal access to contraceptives - for both sexes - everywhere. 2 in 5 pregnancies are reported as mistimed or not wanted. (Do this and you'll have to worry less about abortion.)

2 Guarantee education through secondary school for all, especially girls. In every culture surveyed to date, women who have completed at least some secondary school have fewer children on average, and have children later in life, than do women who have less education.

3 Offer age-appropriate sexuality education for all students. Data has always shown that exposure to comprehensive programs that detail puberty, intercourse, options of abstinence and birth control, and respecting the sexual rights and decisions of individuals can help prevent unwanted pregnancies and hence reduce birth rates.

4 End policies that reward parents financially based on the number of children they have. Governments can preserve and even increase tax and other financial benefits aimed at helping parents by linking these not to the number of children they have, but to parenthood status itself.

That's probably a good start, and none of it is prohibitively expensive.

 

[psCargile]

War solves overpopulation problems. Plenty of that going on right now.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

According to the Doomsday Argument, the probability of total human extinction within 9,120 years is 95%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_argument

Needless to say, the basis for the argument is controversial. However, just in case, would it be sensible for us to start preparing the way for the robots and AIs or uplifting species to take over from us.

 

[1001001]

Inferno

 

[Kemaiku]

Inferno

Only the book, the movie was fucking garbage compared to it.

 

[Markonian]

War solves overpopulation problems. Plenty of that going on right now.

Actually, it doesn't. There are wars going on at any time but we still suffer from overpopulation.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

War solves overpopulation problems. Plenty of that going on right now.

There's not remotely enough war going on right now to cause negative population growth worldwide, nor has there been enough to do so at least since 1800, if not ever in recorded history. So, not only is the premise embodied in your first sentence not something that actually occurs in reality, nor is it even something expected to occur, despite the wars of the 20th century, despite the conflicts and threats present right now, and even overlooking your misuse of the word "solve," but also the ambiguous second sentence, "plenty of that going on right now," is, despite its ambiguity, nevertheless both unrelated and irrelevant to the first.

Actually, it doesn't. There are wars going on at any time but we still suffer from overpopulation.

Much more succinct than what I said.

According to the Doomsday Argument, the probability of total human extinction within 9,120 years is 95%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_argument

Needless to say, the basis for the argument is controversial.

Yeah, that's an interesting idea, but the premise that "humans are equally likely (along with the other N − 1 humans) to find themselves at any position n of the total population N" is pretty bogus, not to mention untestable.

 

[UncleRogi]

1 Universal access to contraceptives - for both sexes - everywhere. 2 in 5 pregnancies are reported as mistimed or not wanted. (Do this and you'll have to worry less about abortion.)

2 Guarantee education through secondary school for all, especially girls. In every culture surveyed to date, women who have completed at least some secondary school have fewer children on average, and have children later in life, than do women who have less education.

3 Offer age-appropriate sexuality education for all students. Data has always shown that exposure to comprehensive programs that detail puberty, intercourse, options of abstinence and birth control, and respecting the sexual rights and decisions of individuals can help prevent unwanted pregnancies and hence reduce birth rates.

4 End policies that reward parents financially based on the number of children they have. Governments can preserve and even increase tax and other financial benefits aimed at helping parents by linking these not to the number of children they have, but to parenthood status itself.

That's probably a good start, and none of it is prohibitively expensive.

These sound pretty workable. We would still have to reach peak population before the educated
generations would apply worldwide to negative growth.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Yeah, that's an interesting idea, but the premise that "humans are equally likely (along with the other N − 1 humans) to find themselves at any position n of the total population N" is pretty bogus, not to mention untestable.

Unless the Singularity, Great Filter, Rapture, first contact with beserker aliens or whatever happens this century, none of us are likely to test it experientially.

I too find the idea interesting but there are several convincing arguments for flaws in its construction as there are with other outlandish logical extrapolations such as quantum immortality.

 

[Spot261]

According to the Doomsday Argument, the probability of total human extinction within 9,120 years is 95%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_argument

Needless to say, the basis for the argument is controversial. However, just in case, would it be sensible for us to start preparing the way for the robots and AIs or uplifting species to take over from us.

How about 8743 years?

 

[BillJ]

1 Universal access to contraceptives - for both sexes - everywhere. 2 in 5 pregnancies are reported as mistimed or not wanted. (Do this and you'll have to worry less about abortion.)

For people supposedly super worried about abortion, Christians sure do have a messed up view of contraception.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

How about 8743 years?

You can get any number you want if you adjust the input assumptions. The 9120 years figure does seem rediculously precise but that's what's quoted in the wiki article. Take with a large pinch of NaCl.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Make heterosexuality illegal.

Children would only be conceived through artificial insemination in registered clinics, then only at a level that was suitable for the needs of society.

 

[MacLeod]

1 Universal access to contraceptives - for both sexes - everywhere. 2 in 5 pregnancies are reported as mistimed or not wanted. (Do this and you'll have to worry less about abortion.)

2 Guarantee education through secondary school for all, especially girls. In every culture surveyed to date, women who have completed at least some secondary school have fewer children on average, and have children later in life, than do women who have less education.

3 Offer age-appropriate sexuality education for all students. Data has always shown that exposure to comprehensive programs that detail puberty, intercourse, options of abstinence and birth control, and respecting the sexual rights and decisions of individuals can help prevent unwanted pregnancies and hence reduce birth rates.

4 End policies that reward parents financially based on the number of children they have. Governments can preserve and even increase tax and other financial benefits aimed at helping parents by linking these not to the number of children they have, but to parenthood status itself.

That's probably a good start, and none of it is prohibitively expensive.

I can't help but note that access to abortions (up to a certain point in the fetus development) is missing from that list.

Sure I can understand some people might have religious views that oppose it, but then you are trying to impose your religious views on somone else.

But the birth rate is higher in the second and third world countries, which generally have greater poverty are in war zones etc..

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2054rank.html

 

[Retu]

Give everyone a smartphone and unlimited access to social media and porn. You'll see declining birth rates in no time.

 

[Nyotarules]

4 End policies that reward parents financially based on the number of children they have. Governments can preserve and even increase tax and other financial benefits aimed at helping parents by linking these not to the number of children they have, but to parenthood status itself.

However the West needs more workers for the future to pay the pensions of the future elderly cos folks are living longer. So either the developed world breeds more or the developed worlds takes more immigrants from those undeveloped places where the people have dark skin, funny names, eat strange food and are highly religious. MMMM wonder how well that is going to go down...
Or we never retire and work till we drop dead age 99 and a half
Or accept the economic rampant capitalist system we have is not working and is untenable

 

[Nyotarules]

Develop the virus that reduced humanity's numbers en masse in Planet of the apes.....problem solved.