Popular Sci-fi Shows You Dislike...
- Thread starter TedShatner10
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I don't find enough good faith in discussions with BSG fans to make it desirable until BSG's return is closer. Just one example in this thread, about Tyrol's acceptance of the order to break off with Boomer. Yes, I know that he sneaked around in defiance of the order. But the point was that after the Colonial military failed to save humanity, lost the war, was fleeing in desperation, nobody would accept such an order as sensible nor would they fail to question the authority of the losers.
After all, I said "In one fashion or another, Tyrol would say to Tigh that "Buddy, practically everybody's dead, we've lost the war, I'm not throwing away the last person I love just because you say so, you fuckers lost the war, how do you think you can keep on giving crazy stupid orders." I did not say Tyrol would mutiny. Going to a chaplain for advice, writing a letter of protest, debating with his buddies and deciding to consciously accept the order for the greater good---the range of believable reactions was very wide. But automatically accepting Tigh's authority to issue such an order simply was not.
And for that matter, so did Boomer. As an officer, she would have had more leeway in contesting orders. Of course, she was a Cylon, so the viewer tends to exempt her character from requirements of plausibility.
And, in the context of the supposed annihilation of most of mankind, frankly, every crew member should have wondered if the officers weren't trying to reserve women for themselves. But then, there were no instances of soldiers raping or prostituting civilian women and girls. Such problems occur in the best of times. Their disappearance in the supposed worst is implausible.
The indifference of the so-called survivor to male/female ratios is yet another proof that the series operated at most times on the assumption that it was just a series about US soldiers at war with the Muslims.
The incident with Tryol raises all such questions, according to the internal logic of the alleged holocaust.
By the way, it has been protested that I couldn't bear to watch all of BSG. Which episode had the subplot about a suicide of a crewman or woman who couldn't bear the loss of their loved ones?
After all, I said "In one fashion or another, Tyrol would say to Tigh that "Buddy, practically everybody's dead, we've lost the war, I'm not throwing away the last person I love just because you say so, you fuckers lost the war, how do you think you can keep on giving crazy stupid orders." I did not say Tyrol would mutiny. Going to a chaplain for advice, writing a letter of protest, debating with his buddies and deciding to consciously accept the order for the greater good---the range of believable reactions was very wide. But automatically accepting Tigh's authority to issue such an order simply was not.
And for that matter, so did Boomer. As an officer, she would have had more leeway in contesting orders. Of course, she was a Cylon, so the viewer tends to exempt her character from requirements of plausibility.
And, in the context of the supposed annihilation of most of mankind, frankly, every crew member should have wondered if the officers weren't trying to reserve women for themselves. But then, there were no instances of soldiers raping or prostituting civilian women and girls. Such problems occur in the best of times. Their disappearance in the supposed worst is implausible.
The indifference of the so-called survivor to male/female ratios is yet another proof that the series operated at most times on the assumption that it was just a series about US soldiers at war with the Muslims.
The incident with Tryol raises all such questions, according to the internal logic of the alleged holocaust.
By the way, it has been protested that I couldn't bear to watch all of BSG. Which episode had the subplot about a suicide of a crewman or woman who couldn't bear the loss of their loved ones?
I don't know if you're referring to The Passage or just being facetious. But there are a couple of things worth noting.
Edward James Olmos improvised a line in 33 referring to "ten suicides" in the immediate wake of the Holocaust (five days), but it was reluctantly cut due to the network worrying the show was "too dark."
Occupation/Precipice, of course, features several suicides, including Duck, by method of suicide bombing. Duck decides to kill himself (Tigh provides him a flimsy reason) after his partner, Nora, is killed in The Resistance Webisodes. In the same way that it affects many of the characters, the New Caprica experience makes a lot of people snap upon the realization that their lives may never get any better. You can decide whether new media like online "webisodes" are appropriate textual evidence or not.
But I've broken on what I said earlier. Let's take this to the BSG forum or just let it be.
Burned her picture. Mentioned her at least a handful of times. Not enough screen time before her "reappearance" to do anything of any real significance.
Caroleanne Adama.
...you do know that Ronald D. Moore has, when accused of being anti-Bush and anti-American, has said "Well, I'm not anti-American"? Since this implies he's clearly not pro-Bush, why would he be pro-War on Terror? And to respond to what you said in another thread about your signature, Moore has said in the past that the allegory is not exact, which makes it a metaphor. He says that George W. Bush is not directly represented, nor is Al-Qaeda or Cindy Sheehan. This is backed up in the very quote you use in your signature. Basically, "It's not, but it is." If the show were a direct allegory instead of a metaphor, you may be on to something. Instead, you are using your signature in an attempt to say Moore has backtracked when he actually hasn't.
Adama and Tigh.
The Four.
Baltar and Roslin.
Tory and Roslin.
Billy and Roslin.
Lee and Roslin.
Lee and Lampkin.
Zarek and Roslin.
Zarek and Adama.
Zarek and Lee.
Helo and Kara.
Cottle and Roslin.
Anders and Lee.
Baltar and Gaeta.
Kat and Kara.
Roslin and Elosha.
etc., etc.
Moore has made constant efforts to keep the metaphor in BSG generalized, such as dragging in stuff from WWII for the New Caprica arc.
There is plenty wrong with BSG, starting with the Cylons' motives for exterminating mankind (still don't get that, and if there's a good reason, we should have known about it long before now, it's just too late at this point to patch up the storytelling) and don't even get me started on their amazing secret plan touted at the beginning of every episode like it was the most amazing thing ever, and it turns out to be utterly lame instead. The metaphor thing is the least of it.
Now I'm getting mad all over again. But I avoid arguing about BSG in any forum that isn't BSG. Everyone should have the guts to go there to debate this stuff instead of hiding out in other forums.
There is plenty wrong with BSG, starting with the Cylons' motives for exterminating mankind (still don't get that, and if there's a good reason, we should have known about it long before now, it's just too late at this point to patch up the storytelling) and don't even get me started on their amazing secret plan touted at the beginning of every episode like it was the most amazing thing ever, and it turns out to be utterly lame instead. The metaphor thing is the least of it.
Now I'm getting mad all over again. But I avoid arguing about BSG in any forum that isn't BSG. Everyone should have the guts to go there to debate this stuff instead of hiding out in other forums.
NuBSG. Started good then turned unspeakably awful.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Although strangely I'm a big fan of Firefly.
Star Treks Voyager and Enterprise.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Although strangely I'm a big fan of Firefly.
Star Treks Voyager and Enterprise.
I have to join into the "NuBSG detractors" camp. I liked it originally, even loved it, but then it just turned into this really dreary and depressing soap opera with more characters I disliked than liked.
Stargates--all of 'em. I don't really hate them, but they're totally impossible for anyone who isn't remotely familiar with it's mythology to have a single clue what the hell was going on at times. Tried several times to get into both SG-1 and Atlantis and failed several times. Maybe I'll have better luck with the next series...
The Dresden Files. Never understood the appeal of it.
Angel. Another one that I don't really hate, but just couldn't really get into because I started late into it.
Eureka. Just simply took a pass on it the moment I heard about it, which I admit was probably unfair, but anything about strange stuff happening in a small town is an immediate turn off for me for some reason...
Stargates--all of 'em. I don't really hate them, but they're totally impossible for anyone who isn't remotely familiar with it's mythology to have a single clue what the hell was going on at times. Tried several times to get into both SG-1 and Atlantis and failed several times. Maybe I'll have better luck with the next series...
The Dresden Files. Never understood the appeal of it.
Angel. Another one that I don't really hate, but just couldn't really get into because I started late into it.
Eureka. Just simply took a pass on it the moment I heard about it, which I admit was probably unfair, but anything about strange stuff happening in a small town is an immediate turn off for me for some reason...
It is advisable that everyone listens to her.
Yes, there is.
There really is.
So let's introduce twentieth century rock songs, New Age religion and a mcguffin of having several random crew members sudednly be cylons.
It's the storytelling equivalent of saying, "Well, we've fucked up over here, so........LOOK OVER THERE, IT'S A GIANT PINK DRAGON!!!!!"
Didn't fool me. In fact, the respect I had for RDM as a writer dried up quicker than a puddle in the desert.
This is what happens when you don't have any idea where your show is going. But that's okay because suddenly everybody starts hearing Bob Marley songs in their head and we will not explain THAT either.
Retards.
I avoid arguing it too. More for the fact that it is SO damned disappointing. It was a VERY good show whose potential was shat down the toilet.
It makes me mad, as well. It also makes me feel incredibly disappointed because I saw the potential and REALLY wanted to love it.
Not continuing the BSG conversation, here, but just pointing out that the song in question is by Bob Dylan. Marley's the "No Woman, No Cry"/"Redemption Song" guy, not the "Like a Rolling Stone"/"Thunder on the Mountain" guy.
Some have said that they can't get past the muppets (and even the why muppets beyond the involvement of Jim Henson's production company) in farscape but apart from Rygel, what muppets where they? While Rygel generally had the substance of a helium fart, Pilot was was a complex character who even got his own back story (not to mention Virginia Hayes was very fond of the character).
You occasionaly had an alien that was the performed using puppetry and animatronics but short of cgi they wouldn't of worked for their alieness with a regular actor?
After all nobody rags on ESB because Yoda was originally a puppet/muppet
You occasionaly had an alien that was the performed using puppetry and animatronics but short of cgi they wouldn't of worked for their alieness with a regular actor?
After all nobody rags on ESB because Yoda was originally a puppet/muppet
I'm a huge fan of Farscape (obviously).
But, two things:
Yoda was a pretty realistic and believable puppet in Empire. This realism was not replicated very well in puppet form in The Phantom Menace or CG form in Attack of the Clones/Revenge of the Sith. By far, he's the only puppet that I can remember off hand (outside of the Cantina scene) in the OT.
Outside of Rygel, I don't think any of the Farscape puppets were as immediately believable as Yoda. This may be due to, in part, the puppets of Farscape being far, far less humanoid than Yoda. They become believable due to the writing and the performances. Both of which take time to overcome the "it's a puppet" factor.
But, two things:
Yoda was a pretty realistic and believable puppet in Empire. This realism was not replicated very well in puppet form in The Phantom Menace or CG form in Attack of the Clones/Revenge of the Sith. By far, he's the only puppet that I can remember off hand (outside of the Cantina scene) in the OT.
Outside of Rygel, I don't think any of the Farscape puppets were as immediately believable as Yoda. This may be due to, in part, the puppets of Farscape being far, far less humanoid than Yoda. They become believable due to the writing and the performances. Both of which take time to overcome the "it's a puppet" factor.
I'd exclude puppets that don't interact with our characters directly (i.e. the worm puppet) or are created with stop motion (i.e. the rancor) because they have such a different aesthetic than the "muppet."
Most of these other characters are throw-aways (i.e. baby Ewok), but Jabba is a good example--one I didn't even consider. Interesting and believable.
I'll still maintain that none of the Star Wars puppets get as weird as the Farscape ones, though. The characters on Farscape could looks like animals more than humans, and it makes them hard to accept on screen next to humans or humanoids.
-Old Doctor Who: While the writing is very imaginative, I just can't get past all those budget special effects. I understand now why it was a pop culture joke for so long. It makes Star Trek TOS's visuals look like The Matrix.
-Stargate: Could never get into it. It's Green Day to Farscape's Sex Pistols. It does a good job of taking other people's concepts and mainstreaming them and making them more digestible for casual audiences. And it has some clever stories here and there. But, at times, it's terribly predictable and generic in both storyline and character development. And Jack O'Neil isn't nearly as witty and charismatic as his fans think he is.
-NuBSG: It started out OK. But Ron Moore forgot that in order to make people interested in a show they have to actually like the characters. And that's become the problem. The characters have been at each others throats and have behaved in such undignified manners for so long, that they just aren't even human anymore. It's angst and character conflict just for the sake of angst and character conflict. And the revelation of the final Cylons was the most lame, contrived, and stupid twist they've ever done. Throw in a bunch of pretencious, confusing, out of place religious fluff and you have the reasons I stopped watching.
-Heroes: Phenomenal first season that it has yet to surpass. Second season was boring and a retread of the first season. Third season is all over the place and isn't sure what it wants to be. It tends to recycle the same storylines over and over again.
-Charmed: Not even Rose McGowan's and Allissa Millano's boobies could get me to watch this lame Buffy knockoff.
-Torchwood: I love Jack Harkness. But a sleazy, trashy, nihilistic Men In Black ripoff isn't really appropriate for a Doctor Who spin off IMO. Although I must admit I did find the second season to be quite enjoyable for the most part.
-X-Files: Great writing but conspiracies and waaaayyyy too dry humor aren't really my thing.
-Smallville: A universe where Superman never existed, Lex Luthor was gay for a strange kid from Kansas, and Clark Kent's girlfriend was beyond obnoxious and stupid.
-Stargate: Could never get into it. It's Green Day to Farscape's Sex Pistols. It does a good job of taking other people's concepts and mainstreaming them and making them more digestible for casual audiences. And it has some clever stories here and there. But, at times, it's terribly predictable and generic in both storyline and character development. And Jack O'Neil isn't nearly as witty and charismatic as his fans think he is.
-NuBSG: It started out OK. But Ron Moore forgot that in order to make people interested in a show they have to actually like the characters. And that's become the problem. The characters have been at each others throats and have behaved in such undignified manners for so long, that they just aren't even human anymore. It's angst and character conflict just for the sake of angst and character conflict. And the revelation of the final Cylons was the most lame, contrived, and stupid twist they've ever done. Throw in a bunch of pretencious, confusing, out of place religious fluff and you have the reasons I stopped watching.
-Heroes: Phenomenal first season that it has yet to surpass. Second season was boring and a retread of the first season. Third season is all over the place and isn't sure what it wants to be. It tends to recycle the same storylines over and over again.
-Charmed: Not even Rose McGowan's and Allissa Millano's boobies could get me to watch this lame Buffy knockoff.
-Torchwood: I love Jack Harkness. But a sleazy, trashy, nihilistic Men In Black ripoff isn't really appropriate for a Doctor Who spin off IMO. Although I must admit I did find the second season to be quite enjoyable for the most part.
-X-Files: Great writing but conspiracies and waaaayyyy too dry humor aren't really my thing.
-Smallville: A universe where Superman never existed, Lex Luthor was gay for a strange kid from Kansas, and Clark Kent's girlfriend was beyond obnoxious and stupid.
Torchwood is a big steaming pile and I'll never understand why some people rate is as highly as its parent show. It's not "adult Doctor Who", it's "juvenile Whedon-esque nonsense".
I find Stargate in all of its various guises utterly tedious, stagnant, bland and horrendously unwatchable, and the exact same set of thrown together adjectives goes for Voyager.
Smallville - no. Just no.
Honourable mention for Charlie Jade - it's not hugely well known, but like Firefly it does have its die hard proponents. It's pretentious shite. If any show could be described as being entirely up its own arse, this is it.
But it makes most of Star Trek's writing look like Kindergarten Cop.
I find Stargate in all of its various guises utterly tedious, stagnant, bland and horrendously unwatchable, and the exact same set of thrown together adjectives goes for Voyager.
Smallville - no. Just no.
Honourable mention for Charlie Jade - it's not hugely well known, but like Firefly it does have its die hard proponents. It's pretentious shite. If any show could be described as being entirely up its own arse, this is it.
But it makes most of Star Trek's writing look like Kindergarten Cop.
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