Poll: The new Starship Enterprise
- Thread starter Professor Moriarty
- Start date
It's definitely a "history reboot," though whether the "history reboot" is still in place at the end of the film remains to be seen.
We know that Kirk goes straight from the Academy to the Enterprise in this flick. So much for the Republic, the Farragut, the Axanar Peace Mission, Kirk's earlier command of a "destroyer-type vessel," Kirk only having met Pike at the change-of-command ceremony, etc.
Of course, this movie also involves the destruction of Vulcan, and the destruction of a big portion of the Klingon fleet, by a rogue Romulan time-traveler. So, whether or not these "changes" are "fixed" at the end or not will really establish whether or not it's a "full reboot."
Of course, this movie also involves the destruction of Vulcan, and the destruction of a big portion of the Klingon fleet, by a rogue Romulan time-traveler. So, whether or not these "changes" are "fixed" at the end or not will really establish whether or not it's a "full reboot."
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Two words my friend: Spoiler code.
I thought this was supposed to be a discussion on the new design, not the actual storyline. I've been working hard to avoid plot details but that's all shot to hell now.
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Seems all trek fans can do anymore is hate...
Well, it seems like all the studio can give us any more is crap.
I'd say that makes everyone about even and happy.Seems all trek fans can do anymore is hate...
Well, it seems like all the studio can give us any more is crap.
Yeah, I skipped over the second part of what he wrote. I'm trying hard to avoid spoilers too.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Seems all trek fans can do anymore is hate...
Well, it seems like all the studio can give us any more is crap.
Some might think the same of your kit-bashes.
Some of them are really good.
But some are ugly as hell.
I was just okay with it based on the first image released, but figured it would grow on me as Picard's Enterprise did (which had similarly underwhelmed me in its first released photo).
Having seen the Abramsprise in action in the trailer now, I think it's marvelous. I love it.
Having seen the Abramsprise in action in the trailer now, I think it's marvelous. I love it.
^^ After 21 years, Picard's 1701-D still hasn't grown on me. I don't think this one is an abomination, but I do think it's completely graceless, and, of course, I completely disagree with the insistence of others that there's no way the original design (or the refit) could be done to look not just acceptable, but outstanding on today's big screens; I've seen fine examples of just how easily it can be done (and no, I'm not talking about TOS:R).
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Adding more details isn't going to change the fact that the design is simply over 40 years old.
It may look good, it may be timeless, it may work (even today) but everyone knows it's been designed in the 60s (cars designed back then would also look good today and even work today - but still the design are changed constantly to keep up with the ever-changing aesthetic demands of the times.)
It's a Catch-22 for the designers: the original Enterprise looks 40 years old because just about everyone who might care has been exposed to it for 40 years.
There's no way to avoid it looking "old."
I'd much rather the current Ford Mustangs looked even more like the 67/68 'Stangs or even the earlier 1965/66 model than they do. Even if that made engineering sense to the automakers, such a car would look very much out-of-date and appeal almost entirely to aficionados and only aficionados.
What would you (or any one else who cares to comment) point to as the elements of the new 1701 that are representative of the "ever-changing aesthetic demands" of 2009? Not confrontational, just curious.
The original series ship is very "machine functional:" here's a saucer stuck onto a stick stuck onto a cylinder with two other sticks jutting out attached to two other cylinders. The components just butt against one another.
Probert took the Jefferies/Jennings redesign for "Phase II" and added a great deal of detail and small curves that "tied in" the various components to one another better. The nacelles - which someone else redesigned - had front ends that were supposedly based on an antique car's grille, but in fact with their scoops and compound curves they look a lot like 1970s Detroit automobiles - to harp on a theme, look at the silly "Mustang II" sedans and then at the nacelles on the refit.
Similarly, look at Probert's Enterprise D and then at, oh, a Ford Taurus of the same period - one modeler described this (not deliberately disparaging it) as the "half-used bar of soap" design styling of the 1980s (I'm not suggesting, BTW, that the designers ever derived anything consciously from auto design of those periods because I don't know. That said, contemporary design is always in the "air" though; it's part of the zeitgeist).
All of that can be disputed, and it's not the important factor here anyway. As I said uptopic, the TOS Enterprise looks like a forty year old design because people have been looking at it and it's been influencing other art design for forty years. Simple as that.
Probert took the Jefferies/Jennings redesign for "Phase II" and added a great deal of detail and small curves that "tied in" the various components to one another better. The nacelles - which someone else redesigned - had front ends that were supposedly based on an antique car's grille, but in fact with their scoops and compound curves they look a lot like 1970s Detroit automobiles - to harp on a theme, look at the silly "Mustang II" sedans and then at the nacelles on the refit.
Similarly, look at Probert's Enterprise D and then at, oh, a Ford Taurus of the same period - one modeler described this (not deliberately disparaging it) as the "half-used bar of soap" design styling of the 1980s (I'm not suggesting, BTW, that the designers ever derived anything consciously from auto design of those periods because I don't know. That said, contemporary design is always in the "air" though; it's part of the zeitgeist).
All of that can be disputed, and it's not the important factor here anyway. As I said uptopic, the TOS Enterprise looks like a forty year old design because people have been looking at it and it's been influencing other art design for forty years. Simple as that.
40-year-old design or not, it also comes back to this oft-quoted chestnut: Show the new ship to a non-fan, and they don't generally notice the differences between it and the original design. To them no matter how 'new' it is, they recognize it as the 40-year-old design, but they do recognize it. So the argument that the original is 40 years old is pointless - it's a good enough design that it truly is 'timeless,' and adding the fact that the non-fans don't know the differences, there's absolutely no argument against polishing up the original design and using it.
And I still want a Mustang II, just to play around with ...
(has to have the 302 c.i. V-8, though)
And I still want a Mustang II, just to play around with ...
(has to have the 302 c.i. V-8, though)
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Seems all trek fans can do anymore is hate...
Well, it seems like all the studio can give us any more is crap.
Some might think the same of your kit-bashes.
Some of them are really good.
But some are ugly as hell.
Why the fuck are you getting personal? Do you work for the studio and somehow took my remark personally?
And when the fuck was any of my kitbashes used in an official paramount motion picture and written into cannon? My models are for my own fun, I'm not foisting them on anyone as an official production.
And I still want a Mustang II, just to play around with ...
I had one of them. Yellow. With the Ghia package. Never got more traffic tickets in my life.
The thing is, the current Mustangs aren't being sold as though they're classic 1960's versions. They're sold as something new, paying homage to the classic. The two are not supposed to be the same thing, and nobody is being asked to accept them as such.
Now... if you were trying to buy a classic 1967 'Stang, put money down on it, travelled cross-country to pick it up, and found out that it was actually a current model... then it would be a problem, huh?
