I agree that Tuvix was a more likable and "better" character than either Tuvok or Neelix !!
Tuvix IS/WAS "Greater Than The Sum of His Parts"
Another example of TREK Playing it SAFE
Poll: Janeway & Gender
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Tuvix IS/WAS "Greater Than The Sum of His Parts"
Another example of TREK Playing it SAFE
Absolutely.
or the third option - they were moral cowards - it's hard to tell with that cast - Paris looks like he's struggling with constipation rather than some difficult moral issue.
Is it me or does the argument "Tuvix was born/not born" make absolutely no difference in the scheme of things? He was a sentient being, therefore he had the right to life - but the same is true of both Tuvok and Neelix. No matter which way Janeway punted, someone was going to kick the existential bucket.
So the way I look at it boils down to pure utilitarianism - go for that which produces the greater amount of good. One life against two. I see little justification in saving one person and letting two die when you could save two people out of the three. Sorry Tuvix, but you can't argue with maths - especially when there are no replacement crewmen to be had for 70 years.
So the way I look at it boils down to pure utilitarianism - go for that which produces the greater amount of good. One life against two. I see little justification in saving one person and letting two die when you could save two people out of the three. Sorry Tuvix, but you can't argue with maths - especially when there are no replacement crewmen to be had for 70 years.
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And getting back on topic, according to the numbers and votes thus far, and rounding to the nearest whole point:
34% of men dislike Janeway
16% of women dislike Janeway
Therefore, according to the (limited) data we have thus far, as a percentage, men are more than twice as likely to dislike Janeway than women. Make of that what you will.
34% of men dislike Janeway
16% of women dislike Janeway
Therefore, according to the (limited) data we have thus far, as a percentage, men are more than twice as likely to dislike Janeway than women. Make of that what you will.
Men win again!
- LightningStorm:
As you might imagine, I disagree with your point as well.
It's ridiculous to believe that she, as a Starfleet officer, should suddenly NOT be what she swore an oath to, just because it is convenient. It's not only important to show the other races of the Delta Quadrant what Starfleet/UFP values are worth but also to engender discipline among the rest of the crew.
Once you, as captain, start making exceptions to your personal beliefs, to your oath, you give free license to your crew to do the same, perhaps to the detriment of everyone onboard.
Either she's consistently a risktaker (within reason) or consistently by the book. What's her style of command?
Yes, writers' fault but it's the character who gets those bad decisions reflected on them.
As you might imagine, I disagree with your point as well.
It's ridiculous to believe that she, as a Starfleet officer, should suddenly NOT be what she swore an oath to, just because it is convenient. It's not only important to show the other races of the Delta Quadrant what Starfleet/UFP values are worth but also to engender discipline among the rest of the crew.
Once you, as captain, start making exceptions to your personal beliefs, to your oath, you give free license to your crew to do the same, perhaps to the detriment of everyone onboard.
Either she's consistently a risktaker (within reason) or consistently by the book. What's her style of command?
Yes, writers' fault but it's the character who gets those bad decisions reflected on them.
But - you know how statistics are - the limited data that we have so far shows that the majority of both genders like Janeway at least somewhat. Make of that what you will.
Personally, I don't think it's that important that you like a captain - even as a TOS fan, I admit that there are many things about Kirk that I don't like at all. What's important is that you like watching that captain in action. And I like watching all of our various captains in action, except maybe Archer.
No, his "life" depended on using the bodies of two other people.
And this says all you need to say. Charming.
You have a lovely day.
In other words, killing Tuvix was wrong, and killing two people to save one is right, because you're going to stomp your foot and pout. Nice.
You have a glorious afternoon.
No, it's not what I'm proposing.
Tuvix was a living, breathing, sentient individual. He was genetically different from any of the entities that symbiotically went into his creation. He was there. Tuvok and Neelix weren't.
Hell, Janeway even referred to him as greater than the sum of his parts.
The argument was that because Tuvix was an "accident," he was expendable to save the lives of what were essentially his parents.
Well, so was I an "accident." Does that mean I'm expendable to save the life of my mother?
It's a rhetorical question, BTW. No need to overreact.
Ahhh...I'm not sure what's happened here, but I feel a need to point out that the following line
"I was an "accident." If my mother needed a heart transplant tomorrow, would it be ethical to take mine to save her?",
which is quoted above as being from me is in fact NOT from me!!! I repeat NOT from me.
I haven't mentioned my mother or any transplants in this thread - nor do I intend to.
I'm pretty sure this quote is from Teya, not from me.
No, I'm not going to stomp my foot and pout because of a disagreement on the episode.
I'm refusing to engage with you further because of your response, which you, of course, neglected to quote. So I'll do it for you.
First, you say you would kill one person to save two, simply because they're friends of yours. That says a great deal about your own moral compass.
Then you go on to refer to the one as a "hag."
Charming.
I make the choice as to who I will and won't engage with online. I choose not to engage with someone like you.
Have a lovely day.
Ahhh...I'm not sure what's happened here, but I feel a need to point out that the following line
"I was an "accident." If my mother needed a heart transplant tomorrow, would it be ethical to take mine to save her?",
which is quoted above as being from me is in fact NOT from me!!! I repeat NOT from me.
I haven't mentioned my mother or any transplants in this thread - nor do I intend to.
I'm pretty sure this quote is from Teya, not from me.
It was. I attributed it properly in my response.
I guess that you're right here. I'm sure that it would have created even more criticizm against Janeway.
As I see it, she was faced with a difficult dilemma and did the right decision.
I'm female and did not like Janeway.
I never warmed to Kate Mulgrew's portrayal of Janeway - she always came across to me at least as too brittle. I've often pondered whether Captain "Nicole" Janeway might have produced a different response from me had Genevieve Bujold lasted more than a day and a half on set.
As primarily a fan of ST:TNG, I understand that it takes some time for actor and role and writers to all get on the same page as far as character development goes. Seems to me that by Season 3 in TNG, everyone were getting their acts together insofar as Picard's personality was playing out. From there on in, insofar as Picard's development was concerned (if not necessarily the quality of individual episodes), you understand where the Captain is coming from.
I just never got the same sense of creative coming-together with Janeway as played by Kate Mulgrew - nothing against the actor. She's shown her talents in lots of ways in lots of plays. It's just that I never sensed that the moment of creative connectivity was ever reached in respect of her personality.
I never warmed to Kate Mulgrew's portrayal of Janeway - she always came across to me at least as too brittle. I've often pondered whether Captain "Nicole" Janeway might have produced a different response from me had Genevieve Bujold lasted more than a day and a half on set.
As primarily a fan of ST:TNG, I understand that it takes some time for actor and role and writers to all get on the same page as far as character development goes. Seems to me that by Season 3 in TNG, everyone were getting their acts together insofar as Picard's personality was playing out. From there on in, insofar as Picard's development was concerned (if not necessarily the quality of individual episodes), you understand where the Captain is coming from.
I just never got the same sense of creative coming-together with Janeway as played by Kate Mulgrew - nothing against the actor. She's shown her talents in lots of ways in lots of plays. It's just that I never sensed that the moment of creative connectivity was ever reached in respect of her personality.
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