Poll: Bring Janeway back?

[LaBarre]

Sorry, but it's bugging me "Walloping" in grief? I think you mean wallowing.

Actually, "walloping" pretty much sums up what I think several contributers have suffered in the numerous Janeway "character destruction" threads to date.

Every time one or more of us puts up a reason why the Voyager relaunch should be given a go, there's a "walloping" sure to follow.

 

[neogothboy74]

This thread has certainly been interestng. I had no idea that Voyager fans were upset that Kes & Neelix weren't in the Relaunch novels. I guess I just never presumed that they would be included (or not right away - I can see them maybe popping up later) as they were written out of the series before it ended. I mean, Neelix was in the last episode, but barely, he seemed happy where he was though. Also, I never thought of Janeway as the 'main character' of Voyager; the thought is completely alien to me. I don't think any of the Treks have a 'main character'; they're ensemble pieces. I loved DS9 just as much when Sisko was removed from the picture, and I loved Classic Trek just as much with the loss of Kirk. It doesn't occur to me to feel betrayed.

I don't know if Lynx has read the "String Theory" trilogy (one of which was written by Kisten Beyer, the author of Full Circle), but that trilogy of Voyager books is set between the 4th & 5th Seasons and actually explains what happens in "Fury" & how that is NOT Kes in that episode. I disliked 'Fury' as well, and the books didn't make me love it, but it eased the hurt a little bit. Also, that trilogy features Janeway when she was very much alive! I really enjoyed them, though the last one is a bit harder to get through, I thought they were worth it.

The thing about Voyager the series, is that it's what the writers for that show made of it. I mean, it was nothing before the writers dreamt it up. And Kes leaving, and Neelix leaving are part of what Voyager is. So I find it odd that someone who says that the people enjoying the books that don't feature those characters are not thought of as Voyager fans - when the people that accept those decisions are the people that actually embraced what was on the actual series.

 

[LaBarre]

I don't know if Lynx has read the "String Theory" trilogy (one of which was written by Kisten Beyer, the author of Full Circle), but that trilogy of Voyager books is set between the 4th & 5th Seasons and actually explains what happens in "Fury" & how that is NOT Kes in that episode. I disliked 'Fury' as well, and the books didn't make me love it, but it eased the hurt a little bit. Also, that trilogy features Janeway when she was very much alive! I really enjoyed them, though the last one is a bit harder to get through, I thought they were worth it.

The thing about Voyager the series, is that it's what the writers for that show made of it. I mean, it was nothing before the writers dreamt it up. And Kes leaving, and Neelix leaving are part of what Voyager is. So I find it odd that someone who says that the people enjoying the books that don't feature those characters are not thought of as Voyager fans - when the people that accept those decisions are the people that actually embraced what was on the actual series.

Oh please, no harm to you, but I've been desperately hoping that we've finally been winding this thing down, and now you do this...

Oy vey!!!

 

[neogothboy74]

This thread has certainly been interestng. I had no idea that Voyager fans were upset that Kes & Neelix weren't in the Relaunch novels. I guess I just never presumed that they would be included (or not right away - I can see them maybe popping up later) as they were written out of the series before it ended. I mean, Neelix was in the last episode, but barely, he seemed happy where he was though. Also, I never thought of Janeway as the 'main character' of Voyager; the thought is completely alien to me. I don't think any of the Treks have a 'main character'; they're ensemble pieces. I loved DS9 just as much when Sisko was removed from the picture, and I loved Classic Trek just as much with the loss of Kirk. It doesn't occur to me to feel betrayed.

I don't know if Lynx has read the "String Theory" trilogy (one of which was written by Kisten Beyer, the author of Full Circle), but that trilogy of Voyager books is set between the 4th & 5th Seasons and actually explains what happens in "Fury" & how that is NOT Kes in that episode. I disliked 'Fury' as well, and the books didn't make me love it, but it eased the hurt a little bit. Also, that trilogy features Janeway when she was very much alive! I really enjoyed them, though the last one is a bit harder to get through, I thought they were worth it.

The thing about Voyager the series, is that it's what the writers for that show made of it. I mean, it was nothing before the writers dreamt it up. And Kes leaving, and Neelix leaving are part of what Voyager is. So I find it odd that someone who says that the people enjoying the books that don't feature those characters are not thought of as Voyager fans - when the people that accept those decisions are the people that actually embraced what was on the actual series.

Oh please, no harm to you, but I've been desperately hoping that we've finally been winding this thing down, and now you do this...

Oy vey!!!

Sorry. But this point of view was a complete revelation to me. It really was. It adds all kinds of things to the discussion that I'd never even considered before.

And, no harm to you, but you do know that when you're tired of a thread you can choose to leave it, right? And those that have learned interesting new things and want to continue discussing it can continue discussing it. It's pretty simple actually.

 

[LaBarre]

I wasn't trying to be snarky to you, it's perhaps war weariness taking hold. So that when the newly enlisted replacements come on board, an old timer finds herself more than slightly jaded.

Not wanting to impose on your joy at continuing to discuss.

Lead on MacDuff.

 

[neogothboy74]

I wasn't trying to be snarky to you, it's perhaps war weariness taking hold. So that when the newly enlisted replacements come on board, an old timer finds herself more than slightly jaded.

Not wanting to impose on your joy at continuing to discuss.

Lead on MacDuff.

Yes Ma'am

 

[Rosalind]

And, no harm to you, but you do know that when you're tired of a thread you can choose to leave it, right?

yep. LS and I are the only poor souls who have to read these threads.

3000 and counting...

 

[neogothboy74]

And, no harm to you, but you do know that when you're tired of a thread you can choose to leave it, right?

yep. LS and I are the only poor souls who have to read these threads.

3000 and counting...

Wow.

 

[LaBarre]

And, no harm to you, but you do know that when you're tired of a thread you can choose to leave it, right?

yep. LS and I are the only poor souls who have to read these threads.

3000 and counting...

Wow.

Yes Sir!

 

[neogothboy74]

yep. LS and I are the only poor souls who have to read these threads.

3000 and counting...

Wow.

Yes Sir!

Perfect timing! I appreciate funny people.

 

[Brit]

Every time one or more of us puts up a reason why the Voyager relaunch should be given a go, there's a "walloping" sure to follow.

And as long as there are people like Margaret Clark and the Trek authors that post in this forum I for one will continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books and the way Voyager characters are treated in them. You can't disrespect a large segment of the fandom and expect them to be silent.

Brit

 

[Therin of Andor]

And as long as there are people like Margaret Clark and the Trek authors that post in this forum I for one will continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books and the way Voyager characters are treated in them.

Then campaign for a "Voyager" book like the "Crucible" trilogy, which deliberately set its own path, and took most of its directions from canonical ST, not the subplots set in motion by the various novels.

That would be so much more... positive.

You can't disrespect a large segment of the fandom and expect them to be silent.

We know from ratings that the audience for VOY was miniscule compared to TOS in syndication, TNG in its heyday, and the ST movies.

 

[LaBarre]

Every time one or more of us puts up a reason why the Voyager relaunch should be given a go, there's a "walloping" sure to follow.

And as long as there are people like Margaret Clark and the Trek authors that post in this forum I for one will continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books and the way Voyager characters are treated in them. You can't disrespect a large segment of the fandom and expect them to be silent.

Brit

And I - for one - would be grateful for some well-considered and circumspect silence from those of you who "continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books" until you've actually read the bloody book - and then by all means go for it and give "Margaret Clark and the Trek authors" all the hell you want to.

Ignorance is no excuse, M'Lord.

 

[AuntKate]

And as long as there are people like Margaret Clark and the Trek authors that post in this forum I for one will continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books and the way Voyager characters are treated in them.

Then campaign for a "Voyager" book like the "Crucible" trilogy, which deliberately set its own path, and took most of its directions from canonical ST, not the subplots set in motion by the various novels.

That would be so much more... positive.

You can't disrespect a large segment of the fandom and expect them to be silent.

We know from ratings that the audience for VOY was miniscule compared to TOS in syndication, TNG in its heyday, and the ST movies.

TOS in syndication was the only Trek available, and TNG was also syndicated widely, unlike Voyager, which had the UPN network around its neck like an albatross. Comparing TV shows to movies is really apples and oranges. I've wondered how well Voyager would have done had it been syndicated, like TNG. We might have been surprised at its popularity. As it is, there are big markets that never saw Voyager during its run--St. Louis being one of them. I'm sure there are others. I think there is a remarkably large and vocal fandom in spite of Voyager's relative obscurity, don't you?

 

[Paris]

Every time one or more of us puts up a reason why the Voyager relaunch should be given a go, there's a "walloping" sure to follow.

And as long as there are people like Margaret Clark and the Trek authors that post in this forum I for one will continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books and the way Voyager characters are treated in them. You can't disrespect a large segment of the fandom and expect them to be silent.

Brit

And I - for one - would be grateful for some well-considered and circumspect silence from those of you who "continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books" until you've actually read the bloody book - and then by all means go for it and give "Margaret Clark and the Trek authors" all the hell you want to.

Ignorance is no excuse, M'Lord.

I wish! Not reading the book, but complaining about it anyways, is a way of life for a few people around here. Some even wear it as a badge of honor

 

[JustKate]

As for me, I'm curious -- with a whole new range of possibilities, what do those characters do next? And why? Does it make sense in terms of their character and experiences? Does it look likely to generate more interesting stories?

I've always had a problem with Star Trek in that the status quo is maintained far beyond what's credible (I really wish Geordi would move on for example) but for me it's worse with Voyager because of the context.

Take Harry Kim, he was fresh out of the academy, a neophyte - now ten years later, he's still on the same ship with the same people. It's like a teenager who doesn't want to leave home, it makes him look like a putz. I can see how the voyager crew have evolved into a sort of family - but who wants to spend all of their time with their family? I would have actually perferred him to have gone over to the Titan or even the Enterprise - a young officer experienced in many ways but not in others because of the isolation from the organisation due to their time in the Delta Quandrant.

QFT!

Example: 'Star Trek IV.' The crew is pardoned for their crimes, except for Kirk, who is demoted back to Captain (which he wanted all along) and they are given a replica of their lost ship and assigned to their stations from twenty years ago. So you have a ship's senior staff consisting of three Captains and four Commanders?

Kirk, Spock, and Scotty each seemed qualified for their own ship - each had substantial prior command experience from TOS alone, and the rank to go with it - as did Sulu (especially if you take the deleted TWOK line into account) and possibly Chekov. Surely Uhura, who we never saw in command other than in TAS, would qualify for at least a first officer's position. McCoy would really be the only possible exception - one presumes that a medical officer might have the option of commanding a starship by transferring to command (like Crusher in 'All Good Things'), or becoming a Captain at a shore medical assignment.

If they were all split up and Kirk (and perhaps McCoy) being the ones assigned to the new Enterprise initially by themselves, the 'last roundup' of Star Trek VI would have had more emotional significance.

Instead, they (and we) get the TOS status quo put back into place and Star Trek V happened. Perhaps Starfleet has a more sadistic sense of humor than we've ever suspected?

Double QFT!

Sorry, I know I'm late to this discussion, but how often does a person get to pass out QFTs like this?

It just makes me crazy when Trek keeps old characters together for ridiculous periods of time. I suspect they do so because of us fans, but I really wish they wouldn't. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[brcarthey]

And as long as there are people like Margaret Clark and the Trek authors that post in this forum I for one will continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books and the way Voyager characters are treated in them. You can't disrespect a large segment of the fandom and expect them to be silent.

Brit

And I - for one - would be grateful for some well-considered and circumspect silence from those of you who "continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books" until you've actually read the bloody book - and then by all means go for it and give "Margaret Clark and the Trek authors" all the hell you want to.

Ignorance is no excuse, M'Lord.

I wish! Not reading the book, but complaining about it anyways, is a way of life for a few people around here. Some even wear it as a badge of honor

i think one of the underlying fears of the "dissatisfied" is that if they buy the book, then ms. clark, et al get what they want, their money. these fans may not like the books or direction of voyager, but in order for them to make an informed decision as you and la barre and others want them to, they would have to buy the book. so, maybe in their view they feel that TPTB at pocket books will not listen to them if they buy the book b/c once bought, pocket books has their money and can continue to do what they want. by not buying the books, either the series in cancelled or they hire writers who will go in a new direction.

for me, i bought ms. beyer's new book and so far it is fantastic (i'm up to chapter 16). but, i'm also of the crowd that was not thrilled with janeway's demise. i went up to a bookstore last night to re-read the details surrounding her assimilation and, for lack of a better term, it sucked (big time!). but, what's done is done and i'm going to be (or try to be) rational and informed about my decisions and responses about voyager. the story may be great, but if you don't like what's being done with the characters then i also can understand why many of the voyager fans don't want to buy it as a form of protest.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

^But how can you know whether you'll like it or not until you've read it? You might think "This will suck without Janeway, the bastards should never have killed her!" then read it and think "Actually, this new direction is something I like, they're doing things I didn't expect." on the other hand, if you hate it then at least you gave it a chance and can have a genuine reason, and if the sales drop by a lot for the second book that'll register with them.
But if you just whinge about it without reading it people will just dismiss it as an uninformed opinion.
Of course I don't mean "you" as you personally.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

And as long as there are people like Margaret Clark and the Trek authors that post in this forum I for one will continue to express a dislike of the direction and the content of Trek books and the way Voyager characters are treated in them. You can't disrespect a large segment of the fandom and expect them to be silent.

Brit, then by all means take your protests directly to Pocket Books where you can at least pretend that you're doing some good. Protesting to TPTB through this forum (which is not connected to Pocket Books in any way) will accomplish nothing. You're putting yourself in a position of complete and total powerlessness.

 

[Lynx]

As for the spoiler you presented

Spoiler: Full Circle spoiler

OK, this might look paranoid but there are things here that gives me a bad feeling. Chakotay and Seven, hm? Is it an attempt to re-create C/7? Besides that, I've already stated my opinion about the bogus crew going to the Delta Quadrant. I sincerely hope that they leave Kes out of all future stories.

"I see the bad moon arising.
I see trouble on the way.
I see earthquakes and lightnin.
I see bad times today."

"Bad Moon Rising"
Creedence Clearwater Revival

Did I not just say that the story was an extremely complex and emotional one, and that you couldn't understand it without reading how they got there?

You ARE being paranoid. Christ. Either read it or don't, but this shit is stupid.

I have to tell you that the issue which I brought up in the spoiler is discussed at other boards as well where people are drawing the same conclusion as I did in the spoiler I wrote and without me writing a single word (so far) about it at those forums.