Poll: Bring Janeway back?

[teya]

^ I'm sorry - I seem to have annoyed you, Lynx, and I really didn't mean to. I was just trying to discover if you realized what having the same old cast back on Voyager would mean, and apparently you do.

I'm caught in the middle of this argument, and I expect I'm not alone. I do like the old characters, and I want to find out about them, and I don't want Janeway to be dead. So if they can find a way to bring her back that makes sense, I'm with you.

But I want the characters to grow. I mean, they grew during the show - I want to see how they turned out. And I won't get to see that if they stay exactly the same. So no, I don't agree with you that what we need is the same Voyager cast doing the same thing that they did for seven years. Sorry.

You're not alone.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Because one reason for my and many others to read the books is that we actually like "the same old cast".

Many others, yes, but the evidence suggests that other people--even other Voyager fans--have no major issues with the direction of the relaunch novels.

Because of the possibility to read about the real Voyager crew.

The real crew of Voyager? What does this mean?

And why do so many Voyager fans prefer to write their own fan-fiction with "the same old cast" instead of buying the new books. Because they like "the old cast".

Fan fiction is pretty much about fans creating and elaborating upon the stories that they're interested in, and is something that exists in relation to every Star Trek series.

And even with the "relaunch scenario", it would have been much more constructive to have Janeway alive and in command of the ship than to kill her off.

Constructive? What do you mean by that? Keeping the Voyager crew firmly in place, not a single person leaving the ship even after it escapes the confines of the Delta Quadrant, no one becoming interested in other careers or other positions anywhere else, would be a decidedly unconstructive stagnation. Things change.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Admiral Janeway broke laws and ethics, but Captain Janeway did nothing wrong. She, along with her senior staff, risked their lives for a chance to cripple the Borg and save untold numbers of sentients from their predations.

It had a significant chance of crippling the Borg, sure, but not of removing the Borg threat. Inflicting serious but not lethal damage on a much larger power--not using, say, Endgame--is very risky. It's not obvious that the risk needed to be taken: Admiral Janeway's timeline seemed to have survived the Borg quite nicely, and the Admiral was actually uninterested in destroying the hub, whether because she didn't care about the innocents or because she didn't think it was necessary.

Captain Janeway can be said to carry a karmic debt in a wayentirely consistent with "Endgame." She chose to cooperate with Admiral Janeway, and commanding a starship belonging to a relatively small and vulnerable power, struck a devastating blow against a larger, more aggressive, and more technologically advanced civilization. She bet that would deter the Borg for a long time to come, and she was very wrong.

Captain Janeway didn't break laws and ethics. She did take a huge risk, betting that what she did wouldn't rebound badly onto the Federation and its neighbouring civilizations. Because of that, she had a karmic debt to repay.

 

[Trent Roman]

Janeway opted to strike a blow against a enemy that, historically, does not retaliate because it's culture is not calibrated to recognize creative threats. That later novels decided to rewrite Borg culture is not relevant. What is relevant is that Janeway saw a possibilty to end an immediate, existential threat to countless species and cultures whose space the Borg were linked to via the hub (including Earth, and probably other Alpha Quadrant locations), and anybody who would not have taken that opportunity to save lives (regardless of whether Federation or foreign) would be unworthy of the uniform.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Wally]

Wasn't her biggest fan, and as an Admiral she was pretty much written into a bit player anyways, so it was time. Only thing I'm miffed about, is that she didn't get a good send-off.
I'm sure she'll be back, but give it time. At least a dozen or so books to make the death count and not feel cheap.

 

[Paris]

Wasn't her biggest fan, and as an Admiral she was pretty much written into a bit player anyways, so it was time. Only thing I'm miffed about, is that she didn't get a good send-off.
I'm sure she'll be back, but give it time. At least a dozen or so books to make the death count and not feel cheap.

This is a common complaint that I don't really understand. Janeway died saving the Alpha/Beta Quadrants (at least for a little bit) from a Borg threat. What exactly felt cheap about it? Is it just because she didn't die in a Voyager book? What would have been a good send off? She died and took a bunch of her greastest enemies with her...that's not all that shabby.

 

[AuntKate]

Wasn't her biggest fan, and as an Admiral she was pretty much written into a bit player anyways, so it was time. Only thing I'm miffed about, is that she didn't get a good send-off.
I'm sure she'll be back, but give it time. At least a dozen or so books to make the death count and not feel cheap.

This is a common complaint that I don't really understand. Janeway died saving the Alpha/Beta Quadrants (at least for a little bit) from a Borg threat. What exactly felt cheap about it? Is it just because she didn't die in a Voyager book? What would have been a good send off? She died and took a bunch of her greastest enemies with her...that's not all that shabby.

Perhaps it is just the simple fact that we want to read novels with Janeway in them.

 

[Paris]

Wasn't her biggest fan, and as an Admiral she was pretty much written into a bit player anyways, so it was time. Only thing I'm miffed about, is that she didn't get a good send-off.
I'm sure she'll be back, but give it time. At least a dozen or so books to make the death count and not feel cheap.

This is a common complaint that I don't really understand. Janeway died saving the Alpha/Beta Quadrants (at least for a little bit) from a Borg threat. What exactly felt cheap about it? Is it just because she didn't die in a Voyager book? What would have been a good send off? She died and took a bunch of her greastest enemies with her...that's not all that shabby.

Perhaps it is just the simple fact that we want to read novels with Janeway in them.

There's still plenty, unless of course, you've read all of them. There's also shit loads of fan fic staring Janeway. And there's no saying that she'll never be in a book again. They could go back and commission more books that take place during the run of the show, or they might utilize her in flashbacks. I can't remember, Aunt Kate, whether or not you're one of the people who said that they won't be reading Full Circle. As far as I have heard, she plays a somewhat big role in that book. You can get your Janeway fix on March 31st with everyone else

 

[JD]

Actually alot of people have already found the book. The release dates for Trek books aren't actually set, so you can usually start finding a week or two before the listed date.

 

[AuntKate]

Since the novelization of "Endgame," the number of quality Voyager books is pretty sparse. There have been the four "relaunch" books (which really didn't have that much Janeway in them), the String Theory Trilogy (in which we had a very odd Janeway in the first two books and then an unconscious Janeway in the third book), and the ten-year anthology of stories set during the series (an excellent anthology, btw). I am not interested in the TNG relaunch, so the "Before Dishonor" universe doesn't appeal to me--dead Janeway or not. The fact that Janeway is dead in that "universe" just seals the deal for me.

There aren't many good Janeway novels out there for me to read, because I have read all of the Voyager novels published since the series began. And, yes, I am one of the many who won't be buying another Star Trek novel until Janeway is living and breathing again.

Why should I? As you pointed out, why buy a cow (Star Trek publications) when milk (fanfic) is so cheap?

 

[Paris]

Actually alot of people have already found the book. The release dates for Trek books aren't actually set, so you can usually start finding a week or two before the listed date.

If only I were one of the lucky ones. All the stores where I am have a release date of March 31st.

 

[JD]

Since the novelization of "Endgame," the number of quality Voyager books is pretty sparse. There have been the four "relaunch" books (which really didn't have that much Janeway in them), the String Theory Trilogy (in which we had a very odd Janeway in the first two books and then an unconscious Janeway in the third book), and the ten-year anthology of stories set during the series (an excellent anthology, btw). I am not interested in the TNG relaunch, so the "Before Dishonor" universe doesn't appeal to me--dead Janeway or not. The fact that Janeway is dead in that "universe" just seals the deal for me.

There aren't many good Janeway novels out there for me to read, because I have read all of the Voyager novels published since the series began. And, yes, I am one of the many who won't be buying another Star Trek novel until Janeway is living and breathing again.

Why should I? As you pointed out, why buy a cow (Star Trek publications) when milk (fanfic) is so cheap?

Actually, right now the Trek books all take place in one shared continuity (universe), so there really is no difference between the universe in the Voyager books and Before Dishonor.

 

[AuntKate]

Since the novelization of "Endgame," the number of quality Voyager books is pretty sparse. There have been the four "relaunch" books (which really didn't have that much Janeway in them), the String Theory Trilogy (in which we had a very odd Janeway in the first two books and then an unconscious Janeway in the third book), and the ten-year anthology of stories set during the series (an excellent anthology, btw). I am not interested in the TNG relaunch, so the "Before Dishonor" universe doesn't appeal to me--dead Janeway or not. The fact that Janeway is dead in that "universe" just seals the deal for me.

There aren't many good Janeway novels out there for me to read, because I have read all of the Voyager novels published since the series began. And, yes, I am one of the many who won't be buying another Star Trek novel until Janeway is living and breathing again.

Why should I? As you pointed out, why buy a cow (Star Trek publications) when milk (fanfic) is so cheap?

Actually, right now the Trek books all take place in one shared continuity (universe), so there really is no difference between the universe in the Voyager books and Before Dishonor.

More's the pity.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Janeway opted to strike a blow against a enemy that, historically, does not retaliate because it's culture is not calibrated to recognize creative threats. That later novels decided to rewrite Borg culture is not relevant. What is relevant is that Janeway saw a possibilty to end an immediate, existential threat to countless species and cultures whose space the Borg were linked to via the hub (including Earth, and probably other Alpha Quadrant locations), and anybody who would not have taken that opportunity to save lives (regardless of whether Federation or foreign) would be unworthy of the uniform.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

So when the Borg attack a group on onw of their ships because their breaking stuff or interfering with their plans its not because they consider them a threat.

 

[BillJ]

Captain Janeway, though, had to pay a karmic debt of her own. Not only did she go along with Janeway's plan, her destruction of the Borg's transwarp network ensured that the Alpha and Beta Quadrants would be subjected to a genocidal assault sooner or later.

That makes no sense. Admiral Janeway broke laws and ethics, but Captain Janeway did nothing wrong. She, along with her senior staff, risked their lives for a chance to cripple the Borg and save untold numbers of sentients from their predations. That the book line then decided that this turns the Borg into cheap evil Snidely Whiplashes (as per Resistance and Before Dishonor) has nothing to do with Janeway's decision; it's a retroactive imposition, and a creative decision that could have gone any number of ways.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I disagree with you Trent.

There is no evidence from Endgame that the Borg are any type of threat at all. Evidently they have a transwarp hub sitting within a stones throw of Earth and yet humans look to still be there and thriving twenty-six years later. No mentions are made of any major Borg incursions in the intervening time.

So who exactly was Captain Janeway saving from the Borg? I mean surely she would ask what the situation was like in the future that would bring Admiral Janeway back on such a desperate mission.

Continues to cement my opinion as to Endgames' suckiness.

 

[rfmcdpei]

There is no evidence from Endgame that the Borg are any type of threat at all. Evidently they have a transwarp hub sitting within a stones throw of Earth and yet humans look to still be there and thriving twenty-six years later. No mentions are made of any major Borg incursions in the intervening time.

Admiral Janeway herself was hostile to the idea of blowing up the transwarp hub, suggesting either that she's a complete sociopath or that the Borg weren't a threat.

As for Captain Janeway, her precipitate destruction of the Borg transwarp system is about as dangerous as, say, Georgia setting off a nuclear bomb in the middle of Red Square during last summer's Russo-Georgian war. Sure, the smaller power may have struck a critical blow against the larger, but what is the larger going to do to the smaller?

 

[Praetor]

I had always assumed by the Admiral's line about 'We've developed technology to fight the Borg' combined with the fact that she and Reg seemed to be teaching a history class on the Borg at the Academy indicated that the Borg were no longer a threat by her time. I wouldn't have been surprised if Voyager and future Janeway pulled the plug on them on the way home in the future timeline.

That said, I think she was trying to keep the crew clueless on the exact nature of the hub because she knew Captain Janeway couldn't pass up on the opportunity to deal damage to the Borg. The Admiral, only wanting to get the crew home and being more of a 'pragmatist' in her old age, no doubt hoped that the crew's loyalty to her and their desire to get home would get them to comply with her wishes over the Captain. I would say she underestimated both her past self and her past crew.

 

[BillJ]

I had always assumed by the Admiral's line about 'We've developed technology to fight the Borg' combined with the fact that she and Reg seemed to be teaching a history class on the Borg at the Academy indicated that the Borg were no longer a threat by her time. I wouldn't have been surprised if Voyager and future Janeway pulled the plug on them on the way home in the future timeline.

That said, I think she was trying to keep the crew clueless on the exact nature of the hub because she knew Captain Janeway couldn't pass up on the opportunity to deal damage to the Borg. The Admiral, only wanting to get the crew home and being more of a 'pragmatist' in her old age, no doubt hoped that the crew's loyalty to her and their desire to get home would get them to comply with her wishes over the Captain. I would say she underestimated both her past self and her past crew.

That's why you don't with the timeline.

 

[Lynx]

Because one reason for my and many others to read the books is that we actually like "the same old cast".

Many others, yes, but the evidence suggests that other people--even other Voyager fans--have no major issues with the direction of the relaunch novels.

Because of the possibility to read about the real Voyager crew.

The real crew of Voyager? What does this mean?

And why do so many Voyager fans prefer to write their own fan-fiction with "the same old cast" instead of buying the new books. Because they like "the old cast".

Fan fiction is pretty much about fans creating and elaborating upon the stories that they're interested in, and is something that exists in relation to every Star Trek series.

And even with the "relaunch scenario", it would have been much more constructive to have Janeway alive and in command of the ship than to kill her off.

Constructive? What do you mean by that? Keeping the Voyager crew firmly in place, not a single person leaving the ship even after it escapes the confines of the Delta Quadrant, no one becoming interested in other careers or other positions anywhere else, would be a decidedly unconstructive stagnation. Things change.

The real crew of Voyager is the crew we saw in the TV series.

What's the point in making a book series and call it a "Voyager Relaunch" if hardly anyone of the crew from the series is present and the main character is killed off? In that case, why not come up with an entirely new series with new characters instead and leave the original characters to the fan fiction writers.

If I had been someone who recently has become a Voyager fan after watching some re-run of the series and then bought a book to read more about my new favorites only to discover that the main character is killed off and the favorites from the TV series are shattered over the whole universe, then I would have gone back to the bookstore, returned the book and asked for my money back.

 

[Paris]

The real crew of Voyager is the crew we saw in the TV series.

What's the point in making a book series and call it a "Voyager Relaunch" if hardly anyone of the crew from the series is present and the main character is killed off? In that case, why not come up with an entirely new series with new characters instead and leave the original characters to the fan fiction writers.

If I had been someone who recently has become a Voyager fan after watching some re-run of the series and then bought a book to read more about my new favorites only to discover that the main character is killed off and the favorites from the TV series are shattered over the whole universe, then I would have gone back to the bookstore, returned the book and asked for my money back.

Lynx, my friend, you've said this over and over and over and over. Kirsten Beyer herself has come onto several threads and re-iterated the fact that everyone who got home to the AQ will be in Full Circle. When it's done, all we know for sure is that Janeway is dead and Tuvok is on the Titan. Everyone else is still in the game, at least in some fashion, plus some other new characters will also be kicking around. All the relaunches have new people, not just Voyager. You need a new tune dude...People are going to start not taking you seriously...