Plotline problems

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/things-star-trek-make-no-sense.html/?a=viewall
My thoughts:

* Episodic storytelling that lacks direction (few story arcs)
With TOS, that was pretty much how most drama shows were done in the 60s

* All the aliens are humanoid for some reason (IDIC, where are you?)
I would like to see other oids too. Later serieses tried a bit of that and it's always fun to create new ideas of life in your imagination.


* Circular character development (nobody ever learns/grows)
See the first answer. There's some comfort in knowing some things (and people, for that matter) never change.

* Anything goes technology (whatever you need, when you need it)
Hey, if the absence of such a deus ex machina is all that stands between us and a good story, bring on the tech! I can suspend my disbelief for a bit if you can.

* Failure to move beyond Starfleet (what happened to the rest of society?)
Not too sure about this. Starfleet is pretty much the crux of the stories. While you kind of want to see what else is happening, Starfleet holds it all together.

Can you think of any underlying recurring problems the blogger missed, also?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Discuss

Good advice for the original poster. Don't think I need to explain why I'm closing this at this point. Comments to PM.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Unlocking so the OP can edit her OP for substance.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Thanks. Have done so.

 

[exocomp]

I've always wondered if we could have a Star Trek story without a military type of structure or if they really can't do without that sort of thing then why not

 

[Tenacity]

All the aliens are humanoid for some reason

The problem isn't simply that they look Humanoid (obvious reason for that), the aliens are "acting Human." It would be fantastic to have aliens who were "good guys" whose on-going motivations and reasoning were in total opposition to Starfleet and the Federation. At no point would they be reveal to be "just like Humans" (so they're actually okay).

Circular character development

A variation of the magic reset button. None of the character's adventures seem to have any impact on their displayed personalities. One of the few changes that I can think of is Riker and his career ambitions, when we first see him it seems like his assignment to first officer is just a stepping stone to his next big promotion. Gradually this disappears and at some point it becomes clear that Riker no longer possesses ambition.

Failure to move beyond Starfleet

I don't automatically see this as a problem, Starfleet is the frame for all the series, the background, the setting.

If Star Trek is Gunsmoke, Starfleet is Dodge City.

 

[Tracy Trek]

* All the aliens are humanoid for some reason (IDIC, where are you?)
I would like to see other oids too. Later serieses tried a bit of that and it's always fun to create new ideas of life in your imagination.

Well especially in the case of TOS, they probably didn't have the budget for anything too complex.

You know a friend of mine who kind of likes Star Wars and doesn't like Trek said she thought the aliens in Trek were too cartoonish. I'm not sure if she's speaking just about TOS though. Seeing some of the aliens in Jabba's palace and the Mos Eisley cantina, I'm not sure I agree with her about cartoonish looking aliens. But they were certainly more diverse than anything you see in Trek.

 

[MacLeod]

Circular character development

A variation of the magic reset button. None of the character's adventures seem to have any impact on their displayed personalities. One of the few changes that I can think of is Riker and his career ambitions, when we first see him it seems like his assignment to first officer is just a stepping stone to his next big promotion. Gradually this disappears and at some point it becomes clear that Riker no longer possesses ambition.

You almost seem to be implying that a lack of ambition is a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with being happy doing what you are doing.

 

[Hero of Setlik III]

Of course the real reason is because it's easier to make humanoids but in TNG they talk about some ancient alien species that altered DNA of all the life they thought could become sentient that they could find. That's a pretty easy cop out but I think I like it.

 

[exocomp]

Of course the real reason is because it's easier to make humanoids but in TNG they talk about some ancient alien species that altered DNA of all the life they thought could become sentient that they could find. That's a pretty easy cop out but I think I like it.

What if they met aliens that were REALLY different from them, like the praying mantis for example that kills her mate after mating. Imagine a sapient species that would have evolved from the praying mantis and would carry on this kind of behavior not because of custom but because it was written in their genome. How would they deal with a species like that?

 

[Relayer1]

You almost seem to be implying that a lack of ambition is a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with being happy doing what you are doing.

Especially if promotion would take you away from doing something worthwhile. First Officer of the flagship or captain of a survey vessel surveying uninhabitable planetoids ? Or in Picard's case, Captain of the flagship or junior Admiral in charge of fleet stationery logistics ?

'Don't let them promote you' as someone said...

 

[exocomp]

Especially if promotion would take you away from doing something worthwhile. First Officer of the flagship or captain of a survey vessel surveying uninhabitable planetoids ? Or in Picard's case, Captain of the flagship or junior Admiral in charge of fleet stationery logistics ?

'Don't let them promote you' as someone said...

That someone is Kirk in Generations.

 

[Tracy Trek]

What if they met aliens that were REALLY different from them, like the praying mantis for example that kills her mate after mating. Imagine a sapient species that would have evolved from the praying mantis and would carry on this kind of behavior not because of custom but because it was written in their genome. How would they deal with a species like that?

I think one of the novels had something like that. Just not a mantis, though.

Spoiler: The novel I'm thinking about

In the novel The Wounded Sky, the alien K'tl'k is talking about her species mating practices. They were like crystalline spiders, (silicon based). But apparently they mated like a black widow. They got along pretty good with her. She's actually one of my favorite Trek book characters. the TNG episode Where No One Has Gone Before was very loosely based on this book.

I know that book's been out a long time, but I put it in spoilers for anyone that might want to read it and hasn't yet.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Seeing some of the aliens in Jabba's palace and the Mos Eisley cantina, I'm not sure I agree with her about cartoonish looking aliens. But they were certainly more diverse than anything you see in Trek.

Most aliens in Star Wars are far less relevant than those in Star Trek. Indeed, we seldom get to see them emote.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You know a friend of mine who kind of likes Star Wars and doesn't like Trek said she thought the aliens in Trek were too cartoonish. I'm not sure if she's speaking just about TOS though. Seeing some of the aliens in Jabba's palace and the Mos Eisley cantina, I'm not sure I agree with her about cartoonish looking aliens. But they were certainly more diverse than anything you see in Trek.

But like Trek they are mostly background. Mos Eisely is just a newer take on the reception scene in "Journey To Babel". Only a couple get any real "face time". In SW as in Trek, our plucky heroes and vile villains are mostly humans.

 

[The Wormhole]

To be honest, that article doesn't really seem well thought. Episodic storytelling and circular character development are a reflection of the times TOS and TNG were made. The other shows are another matter, but given this article seems mostly focused on TOS and TNG, I'll just stick with them for now. Even so, TNG did experiment with some loose story arcs, like the stuff with Admiral Quinn and Commander Remmick in season 1 that let into Conspiracy and then the Worf and Duras stuff in Sins of the Father, Reunion and Redemption.

Humanoid aliens and anything goes technology are legitimate enough criticisms, but everyone voices them, this article isn't saying anything new on the matter.

I'm not sure what they're trying to say on the Failure to Move Beyond Starfleet one. While the title would imply they want a perspective different from Starfleet's, the actual write-up implies they're fed up with each series only focusing on a particular ship and its crew. Which is silly, If the show is called Star Trek Deep Space Nine it's going to be about the space station known as Deep Space Nine. If the show is called Star Trek Voyager, it's going to be about a ship called USS Voyager. And Starfleet is who the Star Trek franchise is about, you can't have it any other way. It's like saying you want Doctor Who without the Doctor, or Battlestar Galactica without Galactica. Walking Dead without zombies, CSI without cops. Buffy the Vampire Slayer without vampire slaying. And so on.

 

[Tenacity]

this article seems mostly focused on TOS and TNG

For the general public, that is television Star Trek.

Well especially in the case of TOS ....

TOS probably had more non-Humanoid looking aliens per season than the later shows.

You almost seem to be implying that ...

I'm implying that Riker is a rare example of a major character who substantially changes over the course of their time on screen.

How would they deal with a species like that?

They had a praying mantis species on Babylon Five, basically a Human sized puppet. He (it?) was always seen in a chamber with a cloudy atmosphere.

 

[Shawnster]

* Episodic storytelling that lacks direction (few story arcs)

* All the aliens are humanoid for some reason (IDIC, where are you?)

I'm really, really, really getting tired of people looking at a 1960s TV show with a limited budget through the lens of the 21st century with much better props, makeup and financial backing. These first two points are not weaknesses of TOS. This is like saying it's a weakness that a 4 year old can't dunk a basketball. It's not a weakness if it's the best that can be done at the time. 1960s television was not story arc driven the same way shows are today. Star Trek was made with the intent of being shown in any order.

Yes, we hate how the aliens are all humanoid with funny noses or makeup. Again, that's budget constraints, especially with TOS. Maybe we'll get our exciting alien looking aliens with Discovery. Technology has finally reached the point where intelligent shades of blue can be accurately and regularly depicted on television.

* Circular character development (nobody ever learns/grows)

* Anything goes technology (whatever you need, when you need it)

Yes, both of these points are valid. Someone above asked what was wrong with stagnation and being content with your lot in life. Nothing. There is nothing wrong with a lack of ambition. However, that doesn't mean that character growth would still be circular. Things change in all our lives. People get married, children are born, people die, they get diseases, they lose limbs, they get smarter at their jobs. DS9 was the better Trek in this regard. Nog lost his leg, Dax changed hosts. Even at this, things could have been better. Worf could have lost his balance a lot more over Jadzia's death. Sisko's growth was nice in this regard. He was stuck at Jennifer's death even in the first episode of DS9 which was some time after Wolf 359. Finally in season 2 we see Sisko moving on and open to the idea of romance again.

Of course, circular character growth goes along with story arcs. It's hard to show episodes out of order if the individual characters grow and change over seasons.

Anything goes technology is a cop out a lot of times. Instead of telling a compelling story in a science ficition setting, the technology becomes the story. It's the tech equivalent of pulling a rabbit out of the hat or "a wizard did it."

* Failure to move beyond Starfleet (what happened to the rest of society?)?

Again, this isn't a major flaw. Star Trek has always been about Starfleet. That's like faulting TOS because all the episodes involved the crew of the Enterprise. I think a non Starfleet series might be possible if done right, but that might be a bit of a stretch. Part of Star Trek has always been the utopian ideals. Now that Roddenberry's gone it might be possible to do a Trek version of Firefly. On the other hand, does anyone here remember Mercy Point? It was a science fiction series set in a hospital. A futuristic ER or Chicago Med. It got cancelled mid season. Bad writing or just the fact the audience couldn't wrap their heads around a non-military, non adventure-seeking science fiction series? In theory, science fiction is the most open genre for storytelling. In reality, audiences expect a certain something. Not all science fiction, but a lot of science fiction, especially successful science fiction, depicts military or paramilitary organizations.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

To what extent can Human writers conceive of alien cultures that are not like some Human group, when that's their frame of reference? Or, for that matter, unlike any animal we know of?

 

[Nerys Myk]

To what extent can Human writers conceive of alien cultures that are not like some Human group, when that's their frame of reference? Or, for that matter, unlike any animal we know of?

Horta?