I always figured they came down in the front section of the ship since it seemed kind of command moduley. I suppose the big rocket might have been a backup for the return trip if the warp drive failed.
Plot Holes in 'First Contact'
- Thread starter MonoLake82
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Here are a couple of visualizations of the Phoenix takeoff > warp test > landing sequence from John Eaves (top - link to Reddit) and one of our own posters, uniderth (bottom - link to TrekBBS). Click on their names for the source links.
There's things in FC that are plot hole/oversights/filming necessities (different amounts of decks, no spacesuits in the Phoenix?) but some other things I feel like are just stories without all the details filled in. Third seat guy is a mystery like Cochrane or Lily's backgrounds or who and how WWIII was fought. I still want a comic book set around this time period. The weird thing to me is only a couple of years later they launched S.S. Valiant and Connestoga. It seems like a huge leap.
That's exactly what the Borg did with Icheb's people.
I'm fairly sure that was a cargo hold.
Perhaps. But not impossible.
Remember, WWIII didn't completely wipe out all civilization. There were still some nation-states left (Riker said "very few" governments remaining, he didn't say none at all). We know the USA was one of these states, as per the US flag in "The Royale" having 52 stars which puts it between 2033 and 2079.
So it seems clear that the US, and perhaps one or two other nations, retained enough infrastructure to launch the Valiant and Conestoga.
And let's not forget the Vulcans. They certainly helped in the cleanup and rebuilding. (In fact I doubt Earth could have recovered without them.) So perhaps they also assisted in the launch of Earth's first starships?
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If anyone asks, he's a Frenchman.
Honestly, I'm not sure it is a plot hole. Sure, it is likely a mistake in the script... but I prefer to think that the battle had lasted for days. That way, it would explain why Starfleet was so weakened by the "recent Borg incursions".
Wasn't Defiant ordered to fall back at the battle's start? So she wasn't fighting the Borg for the entire duration of the battle.
Affirmative.
Falling back doesn't necessarily mean leave the fight. Falling could simply mean that first wave of Starfleet ships move to a better position to fight, or coming back to defend other ships that are in worse shape.
In any case, we hear the Defiant was there at the start of the battle, and she was still fighting the Borg cube when the Enterprise arrived.
In any case, we hear the Defiant was there at the start of the battle, and she was still fighting the Borg cube when the Enterprise arrived.
How are the Borg able to transport over to the Enterprise-E without being detected? Usually on the show, transporter activity, especially from outside the ship onto it, is detected.
Also, Picard’s attitude toward encountering the Borg is very different in FC than it is in the episodes “I, Borg” and “Descent,” but one could rationalize that as being because he hadn’t encountered the Borg Collective in large numbers again since “BOBW.”
Also, Picard’s attitude toward encountering the Borg is very different in FC than it is in the episodes “I, Borg” and “Descent,” but one could rationalize that as being because he hadn’t encountered the Borg Collective in large numbers again since “BOBW.”
Yeah, the biggest plot hole is why the wise, cultured, mannered Picard of the TV series turned into an impulsive, violent, shoot first and ask questions later action hero.
I think it's because Roddenberry was gone and everyone was pushing the (now ripped apart) envelope. The idea that a group of scientists could peacefully work together as intelligent and evolved adults is much harder to write than a dumb vengeance story - even if said story was a lot of fun.
I wish Trek could find it's heart again, but instead I will watch season 3 of Picard - where I expect to see poverty, disillusioned characters, some space battles, ludicrous plot devices, stabbings, maybe some eye-gouging, Discovery era starships and shuttles, arguments, decapitations and probably they'll try to paint Starfleet as evil again maybe.
I think it's because Roddenberry was gone and everyone was pushing the (now ripped apart) envelope. The idea that a group of scientists could peacefully work together as intelligent and evolved adults is much harder to write than a dumb vengeance story - even if said story was a lot of fun.
I wish Trek could find it's heart again, but instead I will watch season 3 of Picard - where I expect to see poverty, disillusioned characters, some space battles, ludicrous plot devices, stabbings, maybe some eye-gouging, Discovery era starships and shuttles, arguments, decapitations and probably they'll try to paint Starfleet as evil again maybe.
I have no idea why people find this such a hard point to grasp. Picard made the decision in those episodes after a great deal of consideration. And now he'd seen Earth assimilated, his fancy new Enterprise likely nothing more than salvage, the Federation and entire future destroyed. That was on him. They make it an entire point in the movie that he isn't acting himself - particularly once the Borg menace becomes apparent. He is compromised, he needed Lily to set him straight and start to act more rationally.
It isn't a plot hole, it is fundamentally being able to understand character development. You want Picard to be Picard all the time. It's like complaining that Kirk wasn't Kirk in TWoK then hating the movie.
Worf tried to get Picard to self-destruct the ship when the Borg were starting to overrun the upper decks, but he was told to leave the bridge.
Like I said, ultimately not willing to stand up to him. Heck, it was a fluke that Worf was even there to begin with.
Can we settle this once and for all: Was it or was it not Kelsey Grammer who said "Acknowledged" after Admiral Hayes hails the Defiant and Bozeman?
At first, I thought that an actor of Grammer's stature would never do a ONE WORD voiceover, but IIRC he is enough of a Trekkie that he might have just agreed to do it because it's fun.
So can we sort this out once and for all? Was it Bateson or Worf?
Everyone on the Enterprise were yes men (women). Anybody who would have talked sense into Picard (Riker, Troi, La Forge) were planet side, out of communication, Data was MIA, Worf was kicked off the bridge and Beverly was happy to let Picard sink the ship because "once the Captain's made up his mind, the discussion's over."
Seeing as how the Enterprise-E had only been in service for a year, everyone else were n00bs, probably scared to death to even be in Picard's presence, let alone tell him he's being an idget. So, if Lily hadn't been there, the Enterprise, Earth and the Federation would've been screwed
Honestly, assuming there was a board of inquiry after this event, I would think the crew's refusal to call out Picard on this would have some repercussions...for the crew in a position to challenge him, obviously.
I'd almost think the writers intentionally removed everyone most likely to challenge Picard from the equation anticipating this moment in the film, but I doubt that was a primary factor. If it was, then I would have liked a beat in which Our Heroes recognized it.
I was reading Wikipedia articles about plane crashes, and there's a significant number caused by pilot error in which other cockpit crew questioned the pilot but ultimately yielded to them, and aviation training has been refined to specifically encouarge 'subordinate' officers to question their superiors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management
I'd almost think the writers intentionally removed everyone most likely to challenge Picard from the equation anticipating this moment in the film, but I doubt that was a primary factor. If it was, then I would have liked a beat in which Our Heroes recognized it.
I was reading Wikipedia articles about plane crashes, and there's a significant number caused by pilot error in which other cockpit crew questioned the pilot but ultimately yielded to them, and aviation training has been refined to specifically encouarge 'subordinate' officers to question their superiors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management
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I would imagine the whole crew would've been subject to an inquiry regardless, seeing as they disobeyed orders and left the Neutral Zone and followed Picard, which led to the whole scenario even occurring. But, it's Star Trek, I'm surprised everyone didn't get promoted for disobeying orders and trashing Federation property (Enterprise-E) 
