Plot hole, why not shoot the Borg with shotguns?
- Thread starter Mr. Scott
- Start date
Coz the Borg would have adapted to them too, sooner or later. And bullets can't be "re-tuned" or whatever it is they keep doing with the phasers.
Surely it's the same as the shields on their ships protecting against micro meteoroids?
Surely it's the same as the shields on their ships protecting against micro meteoroids?
I'm not convinced you could define the holographic bullets from First Contact as 'projectile' weapons anyway...surely they're still just 'photons and forcefields', and could probably be blocked like any other energy weapon if the Borg tried hard enough..
Against a close range shotgun?
J
Jetfire
Guest
The real answer is that the holographic tommygun in First Contact was one of several lame things in that film. Better to disregard it.
Starfleet should have had standard issue collapsing swords as a counter a la Sulu in the new Star Trek film.
Starfleet should have had standard issue collapsing swords as a counter a la Sulu in the new Star Trek film.
I think the Borg would eventually adapt to projectile and bladed weapons if you give them enough time to, but as initial-use weapons you'd probably be able to take quite a few of them out before they adapt, IMO.
Seems more likely they would adapt to conventional weapons before energy weapons.
It's one of the stupider things about First Contact, having the Borg be vulnerable to hand-to-hand combat in the first place. Shame that Voyager didn't do like DS9 and ignore that movie altogether.
I think it depends on what is used first.
How about a gun that shoots fast-acting Super Glue? If they can't move, they aren't a threat.
Yeah, they probably have nanoprobes that can break down Super Glue.
Yeah, they probably have nanoprobes that can break down Super Glue.
I just don't buy it. Star Trek posits a galaxy teeming with advanced civilisations and we've seen more than one that uses melee weapons. If they were going to develop resistance to that kind of attack they would have a loooooong time ago. Hell in their first appearance no one could get near them because of their personal shield generators that magically disappeared later.
I'm pretty sure they were used against the Borg in one of the TNG novels - either Resistance, Before Dishonor or Destiny. I don't recall if they had much luck. I think there was a friendly fire incident, too.
I can see your point, but the efficiency of a shotgun is debatable to me for a variety of reasons, mainly:
1.) If you're trying to assault their biological components mainly, chances are crucial biological areas (if they exist at all) are either not exposed or can be repaired/regenerated sufficiently fast by the nanobots
2.) If you're trying to damage the electric components, chances are again nothing critical is exposed, and their armor very likely withstands imprecise projectile weaponry anyway
3.) If you're in it for the knockback... Borg to me look fairly heavy and steadfast.
We also don't necessarily have to discredit FC here - unless I'm missing background and/or literature here (if I do, please, fill me in, always eager to learn!) it was to our knowledge the first time the Borg were up against projectile weaponry; and by the rules we learned they play under, stuff is effective the first time around and soon no more.
Occam's Phaser™ tells me that after losing one to the Tommygun in FC, the Borg just adapted.
1.) If you're trying to assault their biological components mainly, chances are crucial biological areas (if they exist at all) are either not exposed or can be repaired/regenerated sufficiently fast by the nanobots
2.) If you're trying to damage the electric components, chances are again nothing critical is exposed, and their armor very likely withstands imprecise projectile weaponry anyway
3.) If you're in it for the knockback... Borg to me look fairly heavy and steadfast.
We also don't necessarily have to discredit FC here - unless I'm missing background and/or literature here (if I do, please, fill me in, always eager to learn!) it was to our knowledge the first time the Borg were up against projectile weaponry; and by the rules we learned they play under, stuff is effective the first time around and soon no more.
Occam's Phaser™ tells me that after losing one to the Tommygun in FC, the Borg just adapted.
But the Borg are not an invincible race, they are only strong until they meet the race they cannot assimilate or the society with the strength of will to resist and the resources to back that strength up. The Borg were already rapidly approaching the time where they cannot assimilate technology fast enough. They do not create, they take and that is what overcomes them again and again.
The Borg are just like the Empire in Star Wars, the simple race becomes their downfall, just as the Ewoks defeated the Emperor. It’s always a mistake to decide that someone or some group is inferior, that attitude will come back to bite you every time. It’s an old adage but it has proven true again and again. The bigger they are the harder they fall.
So... you DIDN't want to see/enjoy Picard man-handle a Tommy-Gun and take out two, big, hulking drones whilst a crowd of 40's party-goers look on in astonishment?
I thought of it is a was a worthy "Let's put the tech-correctness aside and throw Patrick into a suit, Alfre Woodard into something slinky and give him a Machine-gun" Hollywood Blockbuster Moment. It certainly added variety to the dark, dank tones of the corridor battles and a good comparison between futurist Human Dating Rituals (Holodecks! Gangsters! Furrball from Voyager!) and Borg Seduction Techniques, (I give you skin and arm-hair, you give me codes, capiche?)
Side-note, the Star Trek: Return novel, ("From" the Shat. Ha.) has the same, essential problem of having to throw a variety of weapons at the Borg to have an effect- even so far as using a Vulcan Pulse Wand? (I want one, for the Slash possibilities alone...) And, ultimately, down to hand-to-hand weapons.
Perhaps the Borg believe in fair-chance-warfare?
Or Voyagers Reset-button is lodged firmly inside their Hive Mind?
"A Klingon Bat-Let'h? Nope, never encountered that before, don't know it, sorry!"
I thought of it is a was a worthy "Let's put the tech-correctness aside and throw Patrick into a suit, Alfre Woodard into something slinky and give him a Machine-gun" Hollywood Blockbuster Moment. It certainly added variety to the dark, dank tones of the corridor battles and a good comparison between futurist Human Dating Rituals (Holodecks! Gangsters! Furrball from Voyager!) and Borg Seduction Techniques, (I give you skin and arm-hair, you give me codes, capiche?)
Side-note, the Star Trek: Return novel, ("From" the Shat. Ha.) has the same, essential problem of having to throw a variety of weapons at the Borg to have an effect- even so far as using a Vulcan Pulse Wand? (I want one, for the Slash possibilities alone...) And, ultimately, down to hand-to-hand weapons.
Perhaps the Borg believe in fair-chance-warfare?
Or Voyagers Reset-button is lodged firmly inside their Hive Mind?
"A Klingon Bat-Let'h? Nope, never encountered that before, don't know it, sorry!"
Perhaps when a Borg boards a ship it's only given by default defenses to the attacks the Collective thinks it is most likely to encounter.
If non-standard attacks are thrown at it, the Collective...adapts.
Anyway, given that we see a gun used against exactly two drones, I don't know why anyone would assume the Borg are unable to adapt to projectile weaponry.
To get back to the novels for a sec, the Destiny trilogy does involve a Starfleet security group boarding a Borg scout ship and wreaking a good amount of carnage with TR-116s (that weapon from the DS9 episode). However, the Borg ship has been wrapped in a dampening field which robs them of much of their abilities and even so Our Heroes suffer casualties, including friendly fire. In the end the Borg ship was able to adapt in any case, though it took time.
I doubt any Starfleet vessel could successfully deploy a ship-wide dampening field on a more significant Borg vessel.
If non-standard attacks are thrown at it, the Collective...adapts.
Anyway, given that we see a gun used against exactly two drones, I don't know why anyone would assume the Borg are unable to adapt to projectile weaponry.
To get back to the novels for a sec, the Destiny trilogy does involve a Starfleet security group boarding a Borg scout ship and wreaking a good amount of carnage with TR-116s (that weapon from the DS9 episode). However, the Borg ship has been wrapped in a dampening field which robs them of much of their abilities and even so Our Heroes suffer casualties, including friendly fire. In the end the Borg ship was able to adapt in any case, though it took time.
I doubt any Starfleet vessel could successfully deploy a ship-wide dampening field on a more significant Borg vessel.
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