Plinkett gets REVENGE

[Temis the Vorta]

Palpatine brought them up when he referenced the Darth Plagueis story. Supposedly, Plagueis could manipulate the MC in order to create life.

Yeah, it was just the completely unimportant hint who created Anakin in the first place. Nothing you'd actually need to know before criticizing the MC storyline.

I don't disagree with that sentiment. infinix asked where else they were brought up, so I informed him.

Palpatine's story, though interesting in its implications, doesn't take advantage of it's implications.

The story suggests that perhaps Anakin was created by Darth Plagueis and, subsequently, a product of the dark side. Anakin makes fails to see this connection.

If he did, that could make his fall that much more interesting. If he believes he was created by the dark side, then perhaps he can't see himself escaping from it, so instead of running, he jumps into it fully.

He might have the mindset of "This blows. I hate it, but there isn't anything I can do about it." This would tie nicely into Vader's line from RotJ when he says to Luke (almost regrettably) "It is too late for me."

But then, if Anakin was created by Plagueis, then that means he wasn't created by the force and, subsequently, isn't the Chosen One. If that is the case, then it means the whole through-line of the Star Wars saga of "bring balance" (as said by Lucas) is trashed.

Then it must be that Palpatine was lying. Okay, then what was the point of the story? To get Anakin thinking how to save Padme. Fine, but how come he didn't consider his origins? Because it isn't exactly the same. Maybe, but it is awfully close and would get me wondering.

The entire issue of what being the Chosen One means was so completely bungled that we would type our fingers bloody going into all that was wrong with it. But the main thing that was wrong with it, is that it wasn't part of the story. It was just words tossed around by characters. It wasn't dramatized, it had no meaning, it went nowhere. Since there was nothing to it, everything was wrong with it.

We're left to argue over what was "intended." Was Luke really the Chosen One? Could Anakin be the Chosen One if he was created by the Sith? Why even ask these questions? It's not our job! The writer should be asking himself these questions and not bother the audience until he has some answers and a story that dramatizes those answers in a competent fashion.

With the PT, we're not even close to the point where the Chosen One story was fit to put on screen. As usual The Clone Wars is trying to take up the slack, and has added some useful, intriguing and well dramatized material to the Chosen One backstory. Now maybe the story can start to go somewhere at long last. Better late than never.

 

[flemm]

Neeson's opinion I value. Portman hasn't earned the right to have one. She is probably the worst Academy award winning actress in history, and that's no small feat.

They only gave it to her for the dancing anyway, but as it turns out... http://www.slashfilm.com/natalie-po...ortman-5-percent-fullbody-dancing-black-swan/

In case you're wondering, yes, I hate her guts. I swear to God, that bitch better not ruin Thor.

Ooooookay. Whatever you say

*backs slowly away*

 

[infinix]

Just saying "it's my opinion" doesn't serve to manufacture ambiguity where there really is none. Maybe "without the midichlorians, life could not exist" is somewhat unclear, but it doesn't say the midichlorians are the Force.

Just saying there really is no ambiguity doesn't serve to remove the fact that there were ambiguity. At the end of the day, the function of MC is a matter of opinion since we weren't told specifically what they do beyond "They allow all life to exist and they allow Jedi to hear the will of the Force."

MC may not equal the Force, but they sure as hell represent the Force.

 

[OsmiumJohnnycake]

Either way, the first film suggests that Anakin was created by the force, thus making him the Chosen One. The third film suggests Anakin was created by a Sith. From what is suggested in the films themselves, if Anakin was created by the Sith, he wasn't created by the Force. This suggests that he can't be the Chosen One.

I don't know, this seems like the sort of thinking that suggests life on Earth was either created by God or by evolution. Like God couldn't be the hand behind evolution. Or the Force couldn't be the hand behind the Sith creating Anakin.

Not trying to start a real-world religious debate by the way!

 

[Gaith]

Academy award... They only gave it to her for the dancing anyway

Okay, I've got no desire to ever watch that movie, but even I think that's absurd.

hey, it's Lucas' universe. He can do what the hell he wants. I may not like it, but there's lots of stuff I don't like that I can't affect or change

Sure you can; if you don't like it, exclude it from your fan canon. You may not be able to change the film itself, but to say that only the copyright holder can determine the canon is thought control, man.

Incidentally, the midichlorians can be easily removed from the prequels, and most fan edits of thereof have done just that.

 

[Mach5]

but even I think that's absurd.

Why?

Wait, what is it that you find absurd, exactly?

 

[JarodRussell]

What is "balance to the Force" anyway?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Sure you can; if you don't like it, exclude it from your fan canon.

There's no such thing as "fan canon" or "personal canon". By definition, a canon is a common reference, something that is considered official. "Fan canon" is a contradiction in terms. The word you're looking for is "revisionism" or "denial".

 

[JarodRussell]

Sure you can; if you don't like it, exclude it from your fan canon.

There's no such thing as "fan canon" or "personal canon". By definition, a canon is a common reference, something that is considered official. "Fan canon" is a contradiction in terms. The word you're looking for is "revisionism" or "denial".

I think you take things way too seriously.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I think you take things way too seriously.

Actually, I don't. Maybe I shouldn't have posted that. Oh well.

 

[infinix]

What is "balance to the Force" anyway?

I have been trying to get some opinions on this in another thread. No consensus whatsoever.

 

[Gaith]

"Fan canon" is a contradiction in terms. The word you're looking for is "revisionism" or "denial".

Yes, fan canons are inherently revisionist - but they do exist; to say otherwise is to practice thoughtcrime, man.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

What is "balance to the Force" anyway?

I have been trying to get some opinions on this in another thread. No consensus whatsoever.

I think it's a fan film. A very Bad fan film, from what I've heard.

 

[Gaith]

What is "balance to the Force" anyway?

... to repeatedly and endlessly puzzle over a mishmash of plotting that makes no sense.
​

 

[CorporalClegg]

But then, if Anakin was created by Plagueis, then that means he wasn't created by the force and, subsequently, isn't the Chosen One. If that is the case, then it means the whole through-line of the Star Wars saga of "bring balance" (as said by Lucas) is trashed.

Wrong. Lucas has explicitly said that he's the Chosen One regardless of whether or not he was created by the Sith. The point is that he destroys Palpatine no matter how he was created.

Can you provide a link stating this?

I have only seen and read things where Lucas has stated the Anakin was the Chosen One because he was created by the force, and I have never read anything were Lucas reflects on whether or not Anakin being created by a Sith challenges that Chosen One standing. I am not saying you are wrong; I've just never encountered it.

Either way, the first film suggests that Anakin was created by the force, thus making him the Chosen One. The third film suggests Anakin was created by a Sith. From what is suggested in the films themselves, if Anakin was created by the Sith, he wasn't created by the Force. This suggests that he can't be the Chosen One.

Point is a film-goer shouldn't need to rely on external materials from the producers to clear up points in a film.

Also, it isn't "The Force" and "The Darkside;" it's all just The Force. There is a light side and a darkside. Therefore, even if he was created by a Sith, he was still created using The Force.

 

[lurok]

Incidentally, the midichlorians can be easily removed from the prequels, and most fan edits of thereof have done just that.

Now that's the ultimate revenge of the fans But, noble as it is, still doesn't affect the pre-existing source artwork. Just replaces it with a copy.

 

[Gaith]

Incidentally, the midichlorians can be easily removed from the prequels, and most fan edits of thereof have done just that.

Now that's the ultimate revenge of the fans But, noble as it is, still doesn't affect the pre-existing source artwork. Just replaces it with a copy.

Shakepeare's Romeo and Juliet was a rewrite of pre-existing source artwork. Sometimes, in the long run, the better ideas, and higher-quality copies, win out.

 

[JarodRussell]

There should be a variation of Godwin's Law about using Shakespeare in a discussion about films and novels.

 

[Gaith]

Try looking up Godwin's Law, as I just did - I was pleasantly surprised to find that it doesn't mean what I thought/you may think it means.

 

[Broccoli]

Wrong. Lucas has explicitly said that he's the Chosen One regardless of whether or not he was created by the Sith. The point is that he destroys Palpatine no matter how he was created.

Can you provide a link stating this?

I have only seen and read things where Lucas has stated the Anakin was the Chosen One because he was created by the force, and I have never read anything were Lucas reflects on whether or not Anakin being created by a Sith challenges that Chosen One standing. I am not saying you are wrong; I've just never encountered it.

Either way, the first film suggests that Anakin was created by the force, thus making him the Chosen One. The third film suggests Anakin was created by a Sith. From what is suggested in the films themselves, if Anakin was created by the Sith, he wasn't created by the Force. This suggests that he can't be the Chosen One.

Point is a film-goer shouldn't need to rely on external materials from the producers to clear up points in a film.

Also, it isn't "The Force" and "The Darkside;" it's all just The Force. There is a light side and a darkside. Therefore, even if he was created by a Sith, he was still created using The Force.

Good point. Allow me to rephrase.

It is indicated that the Force, itself, created Anakin in TPM.

In ROTS, it is suggested that a Sith possibly created Anakin using the Force.

If the Force (light/dark/both) created Anakin, then he is the Chosen One. If someone else created Anakin, then is he still the Chosen One? The Force, though being used as a tool, did not have direct control over Anakin's creation in this scenario.