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Please Explain The V'Ger-Borg Theory

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^^^That hypothesis doesn't work. Space phenomena don't create "wakes". And a comet is too small to have enough gravity to significantly affect a probe's trajectory. Even if they did, most comets only travel really fast when close to the sun and slow down to pokey velocities on their way out. It takes Halley's comet ~38 years to go from it's closest approach to the Sun its Aphelion of 35.1 AU (roughly the average od the orbital distance to Pluto). By comparison, Voyager 1 is currently ~116 AU out, and traveled this distance in less than 33 years, ergo its averaged velocity is a factor of 3x that of Halley's comet.

Outersolarsystem-probes-4407b.svg
 
You mean like that black hole Decker said it fell through?

One of the things I hate most about the 'most sci-fi of all Trek movies'. Okay, V'Ger, or a Voyager Probe, takes 15 years to get out of the system. By the description in TMP, there's a black hole somewhere within a single light year from Earth... and no one happened to notice, and it never came up again?

The black star in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" may have been fairly close to earth.
 
^^^That hypothesis doesn't work. Space phenomena don't create "wakes". And a comet is too small to have enough gravity to significantly affect a probe's trajectory.

Ok fair enough :lol: I did improv that bit about being caught in the wake. But I needed something plausible that could have dragged Voyager 6 out of the solar system and into the path of a black hole. How about an asteroid dragging Voyager 6 along in its path then?
 
That would be the same kind of problem. You'd need something with a fairly substantial gravitational field.
 
That would be the same kind of problem. You'd need something with a fairly substantial gravitational field.

What about electromagnetism? I mean an asteroid would have a substantial electromagnetic field and depending on its type a pretty substanial amount of iron within it. Could Voyager 6 being of metallic construction not be pulled along with an EM field?
 
I would think that any field strong enough would also be strong enough to fry the probe's electronics...
 
I would think that any field strong enough would also be strong enough to fry the probe's electronics...

Then maybe thats how Voyager 6 was damaged in the first place? Its electronics were fried by the same EM field that dragged it into a black hole.
 
But we saw the ground test computer was working pretty well. It couldn't have been subjected to that strong of a magnetic field, certainly no where near strong enough to pull it off course. In any case, the probes sensors would have informed mission control, and there was no mention of it. I think the idea that it was caught in a wormhole fits best. We know they are temporary things...
 
But we saw the ground test computer was working pretty well. It couldn't have been subjected to that strong of a magnetic field, certainly no where near strong enough to pull it off course. In any case, the probes sensors would have informed mission control, and there was no mention of it. I think the idea that it was caught in a wormhole fits best. We know they are temporary things...

Perhaps, but I'm not talking about it being "diverted" off course, I'm talking about it actually being pulled along by an object. The ground test computer could have also been repaired by the limited understanding of the Machines. Voyager 6 could have been a pile of junk by the time it arrived in the Machines system, but it was obviously recognised to be still functioning (and similar enough to the Machines to be classed as a lifeform in their opinion) and therefore the Machines repaired it and sent it on its way.
 
You're missing the point that objects in the solar system typically don't move fast enough to "pull" a space probe any faster than it's going. The only method that works is the one the Voyager probes actually used: gravity assist from large planets.
 
William Shatner wrote that the Borg re-programmed V'GER and sent it on its way. That's sort of turning the Borg-V'GER connection on its head. Most believe that V'GER created the Borg. But First Contact established the Borg were already here in the 21st Century.
 
It was never said that V'ger visited the Borg Planet, just that it was the precursor to the Borg. This could mean that V'Ger came out of the black hole or wormhole near a planet of living machines. Possibly the progenitor of the Borg. In Star Trek: Destiny trilogy, it says the progenitors of the Borg are actually the race known as the Caeliar. This race is highly xenophobic and secretive. It doesn't make sense that a society such as this would repair an alien probe and sent it back to find its creator. Why would they do this? Wouldn't it endanger their discovery if the creator came looking for them?
 
You're new here, so you probably are unaware that the board policy is not to reply to topics that have been inactive for over a year.

I think you'll find most fans don't care what novels and other licensed content posit, only what happens on the shows.
 
Best explanation so far. Probably already in this thread, but:
V'Ger returned to Earth where its well-known encounter with the starship Enterprise took place in the year 2373. At the end of that mission, the first officer of the Enterprise, a member of the New Human movement named Willard Decker, volunteered to join with the replicated mechanical version of his Deltan lover Ilia and by extension V'Ger itself in order to form a new lifeform, a perfect synergy of Man and Machine; Creator and Creation. The New Humans were a small but growing movement on Earth consisting of Humans who had voluntarily undergone surgery to be fitted with cybernetic devices in their brains that allowed them to form a group collective consciousness when nearby others of their kind. They were derisively referred to as "Borg" by their normal Human counterparts, as an abbreviated version of "cyborg," partially because the Humans disliked their cult-like recruiting practices that indoctrinated more and more people in the "true enlightenment" of joining the New Human Collective. Following the V'Ger mission, many of the New Humans claimed to have heard Decker's final thoughts and thus as a whole set out on hundreds of ships to find their lost brethren and the promise of true perfection. They were never heard from again, and the New Human movement on Earth was never reborn.

Meanwhile, having combined the biological Decker and the mechanical Ilia (an extension of its own psyche) into a being of true perfection, V'ger decided to set out with a plan of its own. It went into the Delta Quadrant of the distant past using time travel equipment it had assimilated from countless species. It set about establishing a new Borg Collective, bent on bringing the enlightenment of the Collective consciousness and the constant seeking of absolute perfection through assimilation of new technology and biological distinctiveness to the peoples of the galaxy through the gift of assimilation. It had learned all of these things as a hybrid of its human and machine components.

The Decker Unit would become the Borg King, a timeless being who remained hidden safely at the primary Borg Unimatrix and who served as the central "Brain" of the entire Collective. Destroy him, and you destroy the Collective itself, because there is only one. The Ilia Unit would become the first Borg Queen, commanding the roving "arm" of the Collective that set out upon the galaxy with its missionary-like objective of assimilation into perfection. Over time as Borg holdings expanded, new assimilation "arms" consisting of individual Collectives were established, each with a Queen at its head. Destroy a Queen, and you would destroy that Collective, but much like the Hydra of Greek myth, a new head would eventually grow back in its place. That is why it is possible to encounter Borg with different objectives and Queens, and why when one Queen is destroyed or infected with individuality as in the case of Hugh's Collective, the other Collectives are unaffected and the original Collective can regrow with the consciousness of the Queen transferred into a new clone body.
http://canonfodder.ex-astris-scientia.org/?History_&_Cartography:Hypothetical_History_of_the_Borg
 
Take out the bits about the "New Humans" and it makes a little more sense.

For fanwanky goodness, at least.
 
I think the Borg/V'Ger connection becomes interesting if you postulate that the Borg are CREATED by the merger of human/Deltan/V'Ger at the end of the film. The machine homeworld which has so many people's undies in a bunch need not be the Borg, but a precursor to them. I personally find this idea very appealing for further stories. There is even visual clues to support this theory in that some of the huge Borg craft seem to be miniature versions of the way V'Ger looked inside the cloud.
 
As for discrepancies in the timeline who says that time is linear for the Borg, or at least at their birth, especially at the moment when Decker and V'Ger merge....it sure looks like something cosmic happens there....
 
Just how does anyone make this connection?
I never got the connection, either. The Borg and the creators of V'Ger are so vastly different, and the V'ger machine planet is clearly far more technologically advanced than the Borg. Really, the only thing that even remotely resembles V'Ger in Star Trek lore, is Nomad. I could see a connection there.
 
People sure love resurrecting this thread. I started it in 2009 and the discussion lasted a month or so and then it was resurrected and the discussion continued in 2010, 2011, 2015, and now here we are again.
 
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