Indeed and I think it was better for it. But, it seems there is an interest in moving to closer TNG style evolved humanity.
Spoilers Please explain the baddie plan
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
I think a lot of people—myself included—aren't really into the utopia but do appreciate some sense that the future is *better* even if it isn't perfect. It is nice to hope for that.
I mean, I still feel it's better even with external conflicts.
As imperfect as we see it in Picard it is a dramatic improvement from what we have today
I'm all in on the utopia idea when it serves as a reflection of our present day situations. I think Trek (and sci-fi in general) is as its best when it's commenting on modern humanity. It's a lot more creative that the run-of-the-mill character conflicts that exist in every other genre.
I’m hoping they clear this up in the finale via dialogue between Jack and the Queen but here is my theory:
The Queen was captured after VOY endgame and being held at Daystrom. She became aware of Picards gene mutation when his body was moved there. She became aware of Jack because of his transmitting. The Changlings were the last thing she needed to enact her plan, she somehow freed the changlings and they in turn freed her.
So I think it wasn’t all planned in advance. Jacks transmitter was probably a random genetic mutation nobody anticipated. But the Queen took advantage of an opportunity when all the pieces she needed fell into her lap.
The Queen was captured after VOY endgame and being held at Daystrom. She became aware of Picards gene mutation when his body was moved there. She became aware of Jack because of his transmitting. The Changlings were the last thing she needed to enact her plan, she somehow freed the changlings and they in turn freed her.
So I think it wasn’t all planned in advance. Jacks transmitter was probably a random genetic mutation nobody anticipated. But the Queen took advantage of an opportunity when all the pieces she needed fell into her lap.
She's the Queen from Endgame according to Terry.
Some big spoilers from Matalas's interviews, twitter statements and the 3x10 Preview that just dropped.
We don't know the disposition of the Borg in the Delta Quadrant since the destruction of the Unicomplex in Endgame. Maybe this Queen is the last one and she is trying to rebuild her collective via these means. That would complicate opening that Season 2 transwarp conduit (unless she did it herself), but wouldn't rule it out. This will dictate if we see 10,000 cubes coming through a conduit next episode or of that Cube on Jupiter is *it*.
Another point: the Borg Assimilation virus is not a new idea. It is an old one. The Borg Queen had Seven of Nine work on such a virus in "Dark Frontier" (Season 5, 1999) in 2375. Seven realized the intent is to infect Earth with it. When she objected and told the Queen it would be very inefficient and take many years, the Queen said that since the Borg waited this long, so there is no rush. Seven stopped working on the virus, but perhaps the work continued and was eventually revived when the Borg Queen had no other recourse? In any event a very slow moving assimilation virus tugs at a plot point thread from 25 years ago.
The last piece really is the disposition of the Borg. If the Queen is all there is left (which I expect), it make using Changelingagents and this hail mary plan more plausible. It makes the break down of the Cube in the late 2380s in Romulan space sensible as it took some time for the Endgame virus to spread across the galaxy. The Borg haven't been since since (and before that, since 2378) because there is basically nothing left. If the Queen here is a herald of a larger invasion fleet waiting on the Delta Quadrant, it makes less sense.
Either way, I think this is is going to be revealed as soon as the Queen tells all.
- This is the Borg Queen from Endgame. Same one.
- We see her next episode but she looks different and really screwed up because of the virus from Endgame. This is hinted at with how derelict her cube is. She's not doing well. Maybe this approach to assimilating the Federation is all she *can* do.
- She is hiding out inside the Great Red Spot on Jupiter.
- The Delta Quadrant Borg are the ones responsible for the Transwarp conduit in Season 2, using it as misdirection to conceal their real plan. Matalas did story work in Season 2, so this is not a retcon. That plot point isn't being dropped.
We don't know the disposition of the Borg in the Delta Quadrant since the destruction of the Unicomplex in Endgame. Maybe this Queen is the last one and she is trying to rebuild her collective via these means. That would complicate opening that Season 2 transwarp conduit (unless she did it herself), but wouldn't rule it out. This will dictate if we see 10,000 cubes coming through a conduit next episode or of that Cube on Jupiter is *it*.
The last piece really is the disposition of the Borg. If the Queen is all there is left (which I expect), it make using Changelingagents and this hail mary plan more plausible. It makes the break down of the Cube in the late 2380s in Romulan space sensible as it took some time for the Endgame virus to spread across the galaxy. The Borg haven't been since since (and before that, since 2378) because there is basically nothing left. If the Queen here is a herald of a larger invasion fleet waiting on the Delta Quadrant, it makes less sense.
Either way, I think this is is going to be revealed as soon as the Queen tells all.
Except, didn't that plan use Nanoprobes? The one being shown here in Picard is biological, not technological.
The Cube in Season 1 broke down because of the Zhat Vash agents they assimilated. It wasn't Janeway's Virus.
We do see a hibernating cube in Prodigy (2384), which is still recovering from the Virus.
It did, but I think the technological/biological bases in Picard Season 3 is being a bit loosely explained to not sandbag the show in Voyager-esque technobabble (which got really out of hand sometimes, even for Trek).
Mica Burton posted pictures of her Borgified makeup as Alandra La Forge on Twitter in the last few hours, and there was clear circuitry patterns on it that didn't really come through in the episode (maybe we'll see them closer in a more detailed viewing).So whatever the means of getting the virus into people, it's effect on the assimilated members of starfleet is causing nanoprobes to form.
https://twitter.com/MicaBurton/status/1647251711956795393
I think the idea is that the Borg have been desiring an ability to assimilate in another way than "Tubes into neck=borg party".
I'm sure the NuTrek haters are going to rage about it, but the Borg presence in this season and the way they're doing things make more sense than something like the pah wraiths and such
I'm sure the NuTrek haters are going to rage about it, but the Borg presence in this season and the way they're doing things make more sense than something like the pah wraiths and such
I mean, Borg is safe as houses for this season. No surprise.
It was *never* explained in TNG how the Borg assimilate other than "lol we're gonna start filling your guts with calculators".
TNG didn't have as much Treknobabble as people remember, a ton of it was left up to the imagination
Honestly if any "NuTrek" haters don't like this plan, they're just poor continuity students. The Borg actively developed an assimilation virus in 2375, in a Voyager Season 5 episode from 1999. It's as "classic Trek" as it gets.
Honestly the only thing that would be missing by the end of next episode is if Seven doesn't say "oh shit, this entire thing is kinda my fault! I worked on this 26 years ago! Whoopsie! My bad!"
Indeed. I've been watching TNG, DS9 and Voyager a lot lately, usually when at the Gym. All have their technobabble moments, but DS9 and TNG are noticeably leaner. Voyager - which to be clear, I like a lot - was often a stream of technobabble nonsense. Now I'm fine with technobabble. But it just got out of hand sometimes.
- The Changlings didn’t escape, they broke away from the Great Link.
- Well, no one knows how the Borg allied with Changelings to begin with. And no, Borg space being in the Gamma Quadrant like the Delta Quadrant isn’t an answer, since they still have to interact with each other first. That's where a Pah Wraith Dukat could have come into play as a link between the two...
- Because they know that the Federation would believe they posed no threat after what Janeway did. So assimilate by stealth.
- They assimilated enough humans to know how important Archer and Starfleet is. And how much they like anniversaries. So it's just a matter of timing. Though that begs the question of why not send Borg back in time (not to be confused with the Borg left behind in FC) to assimilate Archer before the Federation is founded. Or even Janeway before she takes command of Voyager.
- They knew Voyager had Borg tech on board and was heading back to Earth. And Starfleet would reverse engineer Borg tech to fit in with the tech they already had.
- Presumably, they knew all Picard’s inner thoughts and desires long before Picard encountered the Nexus, including wanting to have a family. So they based such an outcome on mathematic probabilities.
- Well, no one knows how the Borg allied with Changelings to begin with. And no, Borg space being in the Gamma Quadrant like the Delta Quadrant isn’t an answer, since they still have to interact with each other first. That's where a Pah Wraith Dukat could have come into play as a link between the two...
- Because they know that the Federation would believe they posed no threat after what Janeway did. So assimilate by stealth.
- They assimilated enough humans to know how important Archer and Starfleet is. And how much they like anniversaries. So it's just a matter of timing. Though that begs the question of why not send Borg back in time (not to be confused with the Borg left behind in FC) to assimilate Archer before the Federation is founded. Or even Janeway before she takes command of Voyager.
- They knew Voyager had Borg tech on board and was heading back to Earth. And Starfleet would reverse engineer Borg tech to fit in with the tech they already had.
- Presumably, they knew all Picard’s inner thoughts and desires long before Picard encountered the Nexus, including wanting to have a family. So they based such an outcome on mathematic probabilities.
The plan mostly makes sense, though there is a plothole.
There's no plot hole. Just because not every detail is laid out in exacting detail doesn't a plothole make.
People being unwilling to accept unexplained or otherwise ambigious areas shouldn't be solved by the writers explaining everything like the audience has an intellectual TBI
The Borg are not ‘dying’ post Endgame, unless this is expanded upon next week. Captain Janeway decimated the Collective when she destroyed Borg Unimatrix Complex Zero One, countless cubes and drones along with a large proportion of their transwarp hub using her pathogenic weapon. The Borg were reduced in size and power (‘decimated’, which means reduced to about 1/10th of the 24th century height of the Collective) but over time the Borg would undoubtedly have expanded back to their former capacity if not opposed and confronted in their weakened state.
Other species *may* have taken advantage of the Borg in their chaos and defective, inefficient state; this is the only scenario which I can think of which would lead to them ‘dying’… but this dying would be the result of a coordinated ‘genocide’ against the Collective as I am sure that the Borg would have most of the Delta Quadrant hunting them down, for example. Species 8472 could always have gotten in on the game too. The Borg were already adapting to the neurolytic virus unleashed by Janeway during the episode Endgame, so this cannot be the source of their current plight should the Collective indeed be facing an existential threat. As for strategy, if the Borg are indeed ‘dying’ then they would have been better off building up again first by assimilating smaller species and worlds before taking on their ‘ultimate enemy’ - Starfleet.
Jack’s Võx abilities are more described as being in line with him being a transmitter rather than a receiver. Unless to the Borg he is actually more of a transceiver which is a mixture of transmitter and receiver…. But I thought that it was all about Jack’s ability to transmit to and coordinate drones. Perhaps they should have described Jack as more of a ‘transceiver’ or ‘transducer’ in this weeks episode, though perhaps they did and I forgot.
BTW, do we assume a greater death toll than at Wolf 359 or the Dominion War so far in Picard season 3, in particular in regards to casualties so far in Starfleet on Frontier Day?
The Borg do not want revenge on Starfleet. Revenge is irrelevant. The Borg are a force of nature, the Collective ‘conquer’ and assimilate through an instinctive compulsion to expand without ego or emotion, adding all ‘worthy’ technological and biological distinctiveness to their own as they advance like a biomechanical plague across the galaxy,.
The Borg Queen is but a mere interchangeable (though perhaps hard to find as a bilogical ‘component’ due to the strong mind and biology needed for the role) focal point for the Collective Consciousness, an expression of the hive mind filtered in an understandable way to those communicating with the Borg in simple linguistics and other basic forms of humanoid expression. The Queen also allows the hive mind to communicate and coordinate, I would imagine that without their Queen(s) the Borg would still function as a collective, but in a more insect colony kind of way rather than loosely AI processed through a focal point of ‘coordination’, this is probably why the Borg ‘evolved’ a Queen.
How did the Borg make contact with these Changelings? Could the Borg not assimilate the shapeshifters? It would make more sense to assimilate the Changelings and use them as undercover drones. Why the need to coerce them? Why not use undercover biologically assimilated drones instead of Changelings?
Why did the Borg or their Queen talk to the Changelings in a very un-Borg like way?
Well, the Queen *has* had 150 years to plan for Frontier Day… this could be connected to the signal that the Borg from Regeneration sent to the Delta Quadrant before being thwarted by archer and the NX gang. This message contained the coordinates of Earth, a message that would not arrive until the 24th century - it could have included information about the formation of early Starfleet and the NX-01 launch in 2151.
No one said that it was complicated, just loosely connected and a tiny bit contrived.
How do *you* know.
Last edited:
Similar threads
