Spoilers Please explain the baddie plan

[Racefuel]

Why did the Borg or their Queen talk to the Changelings in a very un-Borg like way?

Because she is angry, weak and desperate. Instead of just doing things own their own like they used to, the Borg have to be sneaky, manipulative and subtle. She didn't speak to Vadic in any way that was out of line for how she gets when provoked and worked up in First Contact and Voyager, plus the Confederation timeline Borg Queen was somewhat similar.

 

[Racefuel]

Also, the Borg have assimilated plenty of Federation officers and captains with full knowledge of Frontier day festivities, there's no need for the signal plot point.

The implication, however, was it was that signal that was transmitted that brought the Borg on their eventual course that Q flung the Enterprise into the path of in J-25

 

[Timofnine]

The implication, however, was it was that signal that was transmitted that brought the Borg on their eventual course that Q flung the Enterprise into the path of in J-25

System J-25 is in the Beta Quadrant I think? This cube was *not* on a course for Earth. Are you implying that Q was in someway in cahoots with the Borg?

Of course, in Q Who we know that Q was only showing Picard the threats that he faced in the great unknown of space - Q wanted Picard to admit that he ‘needed him’.

The events of Q Who at system J-25 are *not* connected to Regeneration.

Also, the Borg have assimilated plenty of Federation officers and captains with full knowledge of Frontier day festivities, there's no need for the signal plot point.

Yes, but the Borg would have known about Starfleet and it’s formation earlier via the signal.

 

[Cortez]

It's not about the plot being nonsense (which it is), it's the harm it does to the world building and reality of the Federation and world of Star Trek "behind the scenes", or rather that off camera - this season presents a world of mass incompetence, on everyone's part, and takes away from the fictional world by shrinking it enormously.

Any comparison with The Undiscovered Country fails at that point as a send off, as that grew its world (not mercilessly cut it down), and equally with "What You Leave Behind" or "All Good Things". None of those finales fucked up the world by making everyone else stupid or having over the top villains (not even pah wraith Dukat, as we had a season and a half leading to that, and a long history of his own "believing his own bullshit and tragedy myth" going back to season 3 at least), nor have especially non-sensical plots, in pursuit of one final adventure with each crew.

Nor did any of them - even TUC, as our closest comparison, or AGT, with its seven year later flashbacks - use unwarranted nostalgia to tell their stories (or rather use nostalgia instead of a story). I think they actually expected their audiences to critically engage with them, to think the story had to be its best.

They work, and sadly season 3 of Picard doesn't work because as a mystery box it just couldn't tell the story it wanted to tell straight up, had to have (multiple) secret villains, and just be "wham bam don't think about it ma'am" as the only way to enjoy it.

Soooo frustrating, given what we could have had - namely a TUC that gives not only it's cast dignity*, but respected the world it depicted, and didn't take a series of cheap decisions designed to coast on your familiarity with the past greatest hits.

*(Except perhaps a certain scene with Uhura and language books)

Hear Hear! Well played Sir. It's been so poor, and I really get your point regarding the shrinking of the universe, which I actually blame on Patrick Stewart to a certain extent. A theory of mine is that he's been going to so many conventions over the years (along with the rest of the original cast) that he's lost sight of where he begins and Picard and this universe ends. I mean, I was worried from the first season when he decided that Picard would have a dog. It always concerned me that he had so much input on the story itself (just thinking of his scene in Extras now).

 

[Galaxy]

I do not think there really was a plan, it was more a coincidence.

For example, I do not think the Borg even knew that Picard would be able to pass modifications onto his children. One day the Borg Queen noticed the offspring of Locutus appearing in her mind, and then she started to consider what her options were.

 

[Yistaan]

One day the Borg Queen noticed the offspring of Locutus appearing in her mind, and then she started to consider what her options were.

Why did it take so long for the Borg to nab Jack then? He supposedly started having visions as a small boy. That's a good 15 years where they could have grabbed him, assimilated him, and killed Beverly in what would appear to be an accident. We also know the rogue Changelings seemingly must have been running around for at least 20 years since the Dominion War.

Furthermore, it would have been noticed by literally no one as a result of Beverly ghosting everyone. Picard will see that Beverly Crusher and her son died in some shuttle accident and go "Well I never knew she had another son. Not my problem since she blocked me." And that would be that.

 

[Tomalak]

System J-25 is in the Beta Quadrant I think? This cube was *not* on a course for Earth. Are you implying that Q was in someway in cahoots with the Borg?

Of course, in Q Who we know that Q was only showing Picard the threats that he faced in the great unknown of space - Q wanted Picard to admit that he ‘needed him’.

The events of Q Who at system J-25 are *not* connected to Regeneration.

Yes, but the Borg would have known about Starfleet and it’s formation earlier via the signal.

You probably have to cross the Beta Quadrant to get to Earth from the Delta Quadrant, so both things can be true.

 

[Racefuel]

You probably have to cross the Beta Quadrant to get to Earth from the Delta Quadrant, so both things can be true.

Arranged in a clock position, the Alpha Quadrant is between 6 and 9, Gamma between 9 and 12, delta between 12 and 3 and beta between 3 and 6.

From roughly earth you would have to transit through a portion of Beta to get to the Delta Quadrant

 

[Racefuel]

 

[Yistaan]

The plot is overly convoluted due to the need to accomodate Picard, the new character of Jack Crusher, etc.

Really if the Borg created the evil DNA presumably they can recreate it at whim. What the plot should be is.

1. Borg Queen has evil mind controlling Borg DNA that she either already has or incorporates into herself.

2. Evil DNA needs to be spliced into Federation transporters. Admittedly this is probably the hardest part of the plan but Borg are perfectly capable of hacking computers. We already know from this season that they apparently hacked the Ent-D with a Hellbird virus offscreen in BOBW. Even the changelings might not have been necessary.

3. Once a certain level of the populace have used the infected transporters, activate the mind control signal and let assimilation commence. Waiting for Frontier Day probably isn't even really necessary.

 

[Racefuel]

The idea was to have sufficient ships in one area to be able to commense an immediate assault in sufficient numbers where onsies and twosies would fail.

 

[Grizzlor]

The plot is overly convoluted due to the need to accomodate Picard, the new character of Jack Crusher, etc.

Really if the Borg created the evil DNA presumably they can recreate it at whim. What the plot should be is.

1. Borg Queen has evil mind controlling Borg DNA that she either already has or incorporates into herself.

2. Evil DNA needs to be spliced into Federation transporters. Admittedly this is probably the hardest part of the plan but Borg are perfectly capable of hacking computers. We already know from this season that they apparently hacked the Ent-D with a Hellbird virus offscreen in BOBW. Even the changelings might not have been necessary.

3. Once a certain level of the populace have used the infected transporters, activate the mind control signal and let assimilation commence. Waiting for Frontier Day probably isn't even really necessary.

The only part I would agree is fairly dumb is that requiring Picard's altered DNA was necessary. They could have done that on any human (after he was rescued 30 years prior), why was he so special? Same with Jack, again, if an offspring is so special, why not just create one? Infiltrating Starfleet I suppose, who had advanced security monitoring for changelings and Borg, might be more difficult. In the end, it's fiction, so why let it get in the way of the story?

 

[Captain Dax]

Ok. Mind blowing thought. Federation tried to genocide the Founders with a virus. What’s the last thing Admiral Janeway did to the Borg? Infected them with a neurolytic pathogen and crippled Unicomplex and the transwarp network. Why wouldnt they team up? If the Federation wants to act like Saddam Hussein and poison all of their enemies they deserve whatever they get.

 

[Timofnine]

I can see how the Borg may wish to avoid such a journey through the galactic core, they would not want to be confronted by the wrath of an angry god on their journey to the Sol system. However, the potential benefits of establishing a new Unimatrix complex in that region cannot be ignored. The god like being that once resided there has been long since eliminated by the indomitable William Shatner. The path to the Sol system may yet be paved through the galactic core, and the Borg may stop at nothing to achieve this objective considering the foothold that it could give the Collective over the four quadrants in their efforts to rebuild and expand across the galaxy.

 

[Cortez]

The plot is overly convoluted due to the need to accomodate Picard, the new character of Jack Crusher, etc.

Really if the Borg created the evil DNA presumably they can recreate it at whim. What the plot should be is.

1. Borg Queen has evil mind controlling Borg DNA that she either already has or incorporates into herself.

2. Evil DNA needs to be spliced into Federation transporters. Admittedly this is probably the hardest part of the plan but Borg are perfectly capable of hacking computers. We already know from this season that they apparently hacked the Ent-D with a Hellbird virus offscreen in BOBW. Even the changelings might not have been necessary.

3. Once a certain level of the populace have used the infected transporters, activate the mind control signal and let assimilation commence. Waiting for Frontier Day probably isn't even really necessary.

It's entirely convoluted, with so many head scratching moments. What could have been very interesting is if the plot was revealed over the course of a proper styled thriller, like this was apparently supposed to be. Imagine if Picard visits Beverly or no, even Riker and Troi, and something feels off to him, with Laris also there to meet his long time friends for the first time ever. And the entire family are revealed to be changelings, with Picard and Laris barely escaping. Maybe Laris sacrificing herself in order for Picard to get away. Who knows?

Meanwhile we have Worf arguing with the head of Starfleet when they decommission him, ordering him to stop investigating. Watch him discover secrets hidden within Starfleet or revealed by whoever.

So many ways of making every episode really interesting and avoiding certain character assassinations. At least there would have been some character consistency.

 

[Galaxy]

Why did it take so long for the Borg to nab Jack then? He supposedly started having visions as a small boy. That's a good 15 years where they could have grabbed him, assimilated him, and killed Beverly in what would appear to be an accident. We also know the rogue Changelings seemingly must have been running around for at least 20 years since the Dominion War.
.

Jack himself is useless, she needs the protein receptor to be put into the under 25 year olds, and for that she needs high level Starfleet Infiltration.

Also keep in mind that cloak and daggers is an alien (no pun intended) concept to the Borg, their modus operandi is a frontal assault. Furthermore, keep in mind that she is out of resources, she cannot even repair her own cube, the entire thing is falling apart around her. It would not surprise me if she is going all in here.

As for the rogue Changelings. She has to be careful with seeking alliances, if Starfleet gets word of it, it is game over. So, she cannot just openly go searching for allies. For good reason, the Dominion apparently has some intelligent assets infiltrating the rogue Changelings, since Odo was aware that something is going on. Starfleet Intelligence also come close to putting the dots together.

 

[Cortez]

Why did it take so long for the Borg to nab Jack then? He supposedly started having visions as a small boy. That's a good 15 years where they could have grabbed him, assimilated him, and killed Beverly in what would appear to be an accident. We also know the rogue Changelings seemingly must have been running around for at least 20 years since the Dominion War.

Furthermore, it would have been noticed by literally no one as a result of Beverly ghosting everyone. Picard will see that Beverly Crusher and her son died in some shuttle accident and go "Well I never knew she had another son. Not my problem since she blocked me." And that would be that.

Correct. Makes no sense at all and gets tiresome reading members trying to fill in the blanks. And that's just the basic storyline. When you get into to specifics of how they reached where they are now, the contrivances and character inconsistencies continue to mount up and up. I don't mind a few silly moments in anything I watch, but this season has far too many, in every episode.

 

[fireproof78]

I've filled in blanks for decades now. I ain't stopping because it's new.

 

[Cortez]

I've filled in blanks for decades now. I ain't stopping because it's new.

That's not how I described it. It's more than a blank or two; it's every episode, every character, non stop. Almost every scene makes no sense at all.

 

[Tuskin38]

That's not how I described it. It's more than a blank or two; it's every episode, every character, non stop. Almost every scene makes no sense at all.

A lot of people disagree.