Plastic straw debate pits people with disabilities against environmentalists

[ALF]

When the movement against plastic straws began gaining momentum in the past few weeks, I figured the ban on the plastic straw was inevitable. But would they ban them immediately or wait until a biodegradable option was widely in use first? Sounds like many restaurants have already thrown out their straws in favor of Saving the Earth and this does seem like no-brainer.

Then... a few articles started popping up with a counter-argument to the plastic straw ban: the movement excludes those who cannot drink liquid without a plastic straw that bends. Therefore, "Bring your own straw," as an approach to the straw ban = ableism. You are asking the most vulnerable in society to carry all the weight.

Metal straws are a no-go. People who have spasms could injure themselves.
Paper straws? They say they work, but eventually become soggy and useless. I've also read that a paper straw simply won't bend in the way that a plastic one would work. Again, this issue boils down to ableism whereby an able bodied person can roll with the punches straw-free, but someone with a disability can not. The paper straw will work for many, but not for all.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-43076495

"The organisation contacted 10 firms which had pledged to ban plastic straws and said initially none could confirm if their alternatives would suit disabled people.

Four of the companies have since said they will keep plastic straws for use by disabled people until suitable alternatives are sourced."
​

A small sampling maybe, but those are terrible odds for those with no upper mobility or arm movement.

Shouldn't putting greater burdens on people with disabilities make the ban a hard pass? Sounds like red flag territory to me. Is it a noble cause to save the planet if it means 0.5% of the population are rendered unable to eat and drink outside their home? It says volumes about our culture and society if we go ahead and do this (straw ban) without considering the most vulnerable. Curtly spouting, "well then THEY should bring their own straw!!" does not make one a paragon of justice for the Earth.

Miriam Osborne, a Toronto resident who has arthrogryposis (unable to hold/lift a cup), got a harsh reaction to her request for a straw in the past few places she's visited:

https://www.thestar.com/life/2018/0...g-people-with-disabilities-advocates-say.html

Osborne says she’d like to see more discussion about alternatives, saying she was infuriated by three establishments she visited in the past six months that had no straws on hand.

She says they included two bars and one restaurant, and that the staff in each case was unapologetic. Each time, she was forced to leave.

“That attitude of course is what really enraged me, almost more than them not having straws,” she says.
​

So we can add asking for a straw to the list of things to publicly shame people about. The mystery remains: why is this a binary issue? Why must it be all or nothing?

If you are one of those build-a-better-mousetrap person looking-to-make-a-fortune type inventors, now's the time to step up to the plate: we need a biodegradable straw that bends and works just as a plastic one would.... and we needed it yesterday.

 

[Timewalker]

When the movement against plastic straws began gaining momentum in the past few weeks, I figured the ban on the plastic straw was inevitable. But would they ban them immediately or wait until a biodegradable option was widely in use first? Sounds like many restaurants have already thrown out their straws in favor of Saving the Earth and this does seem like no-brainer.

Then... a few articles started popping up with a counter-argument to the plastic straw ban: the movement excludes those who cannot drink liquid without a plastic straw that bends. Therefore, "Bring your own straw," as an approach to the straw ban = ableism. You are asking the most vulnerable in society to carry all the weight.

Metal straws are a no-go. People who have spasms could injure themselves.
Paper straws? They say they work, but eventually become soggy and useless. I've also read that a paper straw simply won't bend in the way that a plastic one would work. Again, this issue boils down to ableism whereby an able bodied person can roll with the punches straw-free, but someone with a disability can not. The paper straw will work for many, but not for all.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-43076495

"The organisation contacted 10 firms which had pledged to ban plastic straws and said initially none could confirm if their alternatives would suit disabled people.

Four of the companies have since said they will keep plastic straws for use by disabled people until suitable alternatives are sourced."
​

A small sampling maybe, but those are terrible odds for those with no upper mobility or arm movement.

Shouldn't putting greater burdens on people with disabilities make the ban a hard pass? Sounds like red flag territory to me. Is it a noble cause to save the planet if it means 0.5% of the population are rendered unable to eat and drink outside their home? It says volumes about our culture and society if we go ahead and do this (straw ban) without considering the most vulnerable. Curtly spouting, "well then THEY should bring their own straw!!" does not make one a paragon of justice for the Earth.

Miriam Osborne, a Toronto resident who has arthrogryposis (unable to hold/lift a cup), got a harsh reaction to her request for a straw in the past few places she's visited:

https://www.thestar.com/life/2018/0...g-people-with-disabilities-advocates-say.html

Osborne says she’d like to see more discussion about alternatives, saying she was infuriated by three establishments she visited in the past six months that had no straws on hand.

She says they included two bars and one restaurant, and that the staff in each case was unapologetic. Each time, she was forced to leave.

“That attitude of course is what really enraged me, almost more than them not having straws,” she says.
​

So we can add asking for a straw to the list of things to publicly shame people about. The mystery remains: why is this a binary issue? Why must it be all or nothing?

If you are one of those build-a-better-mousetrap person looking-to-make-a-fortune type inventors, now's the time to step up to the plate: we need a biodegradable straw that bends and works just as a plastic one would.... and we needed it yesterday.

The Human Rights courts are going to be busy (this lady already has reason to sue), and so will the government lawyers if a straw ban is made into law. That would be a Charter violation on the basis of disability.

 

[Marc]

It's quite simple - there are alternatives to the one use plastic straws - re-usable straws made out of metal, straws made of wood, straws made of paper (which I recall being the norm in years gone by). There's a diner in the Kawarthas region of Ontario that's getting rid of the single use plastics such as cutlery and straws and replace them with ones made of wood.

There are away around it but a start could be made by not giving a straw to everytime tom, dick and harry who comes along instead only give them to people who ask for them (and don't be a pratt about it) or where it's pretty obvious that the person would benefit from a straw. My wife has cereberal palsy and is in wheelchair and one diner we occasionally goes to doesn't put a straw in every drink but they do ask if she needs one.

 

[Butters]

What about reusable straws made out of, wait for it, plastic?

I never expect to take my own fork to a restaurant, and those are not disposable.

Plastic straw, dishwasher safe.

 

[UncleRogi]

This whole thing is just sad. What will happen is that people will need a prescription
for straws, bought at the pharmacy, then personally carried to an eating establishment.

Sad

 

[scotpens]

There are already a number of brands of eco-friendly, biodegradable, flexible paper straws on the market. (The original Flex-Straw, first produced in 1939, was made of paper.) So why is this even an issue?

 

[Butters]

Proportionate responses are a thing of the past,

It’s hard to imagine now, but there was a time not that long ago, when someone I’d never heard of, in a place I’d never been could be offended by rude staff over something trivial, and I wouldn’t even hear about it.

 

[Kor]

There are already a number of brands of eco-friendly, biodegradable, flexible paper straws on the market. (The original Flex-Straw, first produced in 1939, was made of paper.) So why is this even an issue?

OP said paper straws get soggy quickly.

And there are biodegradable/compostable plastic-like straws on the market too, made completely from plant sources. A local fast casual restaurant that I go to a couple times a month uses biodegradable soft drink cups and straws. Why can't this become more widespread in the industry?

Kor

 

[ALF]

Here's a bit more detail as to why the current market alternatives are not suitable:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-43485362

Mrs Moriarty-Simmonds (born without limbs due to Thalidomide exposure) said she would support environmentally-friendly alternatives, but said the current options, such as biodegradable, wheat, glass and stainless steel straws, were unsuitable for use with hot drinks because they either disintegrate or conduct heat.​

Another thing to consider is that while it would take an able bodied person a few minutes at most to suck down a milkshake and carry on, someone with a disability (or even just difficulty swallowing i.e. the elderly) might take a half hour to perform the same task and by that time, the environmentally-friendly straw may be unusable.

By able-bodied standards and metrics, that same environmentally-friendly straw is considered perfectly fine.

It all seems like an issue of an unforeseen complication in product design. What concerns me - as it should all of you - is that the issue seems to be resolving itself before the consequences are known.

 

[Tosk]

OP said paper straws get soggy quickly.

And yet the human race somehow managed to use them just fine for decades.

 

[Timewalker]

And yet the human race somehow managed to use them just fine for decades.

You do realize that we're talking about disabled people, right? People who are elderly, paralyzed, have had surgeries that make it difficult or impossible to drink like a non-disabled person, or who are afflicted with diseases such as cancer, Parkinson's, or multiple sclerosis, all of which can make it difficult or impossible for a person to drink normally or use a straw quickly and easily?

I guess you have to be there, or around people with these difficulties, to get why this is such a big problem.

 

[Tosk]

You do realize that we're talking about disabled people, right?

Yes. And I also realize we're not talking about a straw having to be made out of a piece of ordinary A4 or something. (My earlier post was meant to poke fun at the idea of the straws becoming useless quickly, not the idea of disabled people needing straws.) You can treat paper to deal with liquids...like the cups at McDonalds. Last time I was there (which was admittedly a fair while ago) the cups were made of paper and deal with liquids for extended periods just fine.

 

[Timewalker]

Yes. And I also realize we're not talking about a straw having to be made out of a piece of ordinary A4 or something. (My earlier post was meant to poke fun at the idea of the straws becoming useless quickly, not the idea of disabled people needing straws.) You can treat paper to deal with liquids...like the cups at McDonalds. Last time I was there (which was admittedly a fair while ago) the cups were made of paper and deal with liquids for extended periods just fine.

You're not using the cups to suck hot liquids into your mouth, though.

 

[Awesome Possum]

There's a restaurant I go to that only offers straws upon request in an attempt to cut down on waste. That seems like a decent compromise until better options are widely available. Personally I've gone towards using refillable cups, I keep water in a vacuum sealed drink thermos to keep it cold and I have a glass cup for Starbucks with an attached plastic straw.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Then... a few articles started popping up with a counter-argument to the plastic straw ban: the movement excludes those who cannot drink liquid without a plastic straw that bends. Therefore, "Bring your own straw," as an approach to the straw ban = ableism. You are asking the most vulnerable in society to carry all the weight.

Thank you for posting this. I had actually seen the Star article you linked to a couple days ago, and was ashamed to realize at the time that I hadn't even thought of that as a possible issue. We should be able to come up with a compromise that doesn't make things more difficult for people living with disabilities.

And there are biodegradable/compostable plastic-like straws on the market too, made completely from plant sources. A local fast casual restaurant that I go to a couple times a month uses biodegradable soft drink cups and straws. Why can't this become more widespread in the industry?

Based on another Star article I read about this, it probably wouldn't surprise you that the big issue for these being more widespread is cost:

Backlash grows against plastic straws in restaurants, bars
(Please note this article was written prior to the issue being raised about people with disabilities.)

It all seems like an issue of an unforeseen complication in product design.

It reminds me of the issue a few years back with electric cars. Better for the environment... but it turns out that their engines ran so quietly, visually impaired people couldn't hear them in traffic, and it was putting their lives at risk. It ended up getting mandated that electric cars make some kind of noise at low speeds to remedy this.

 

[Relayer1]

Until alternatives are widely available, I think 'bring your own straw' will be the likely solution.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Hmm. The very first straws I encountered with a flexible section were paper.

As to restaurants, we in drought-stricken California have had laws, at times, forbidding restaurants from serving glasses of water unless the customer asks for one, which is perfectly reasonable, given that it takes at least a good quart of water to wash, rinse, sanitize, and fill a 10-oz glass, and there's no point in serving water if the customer isn't going to drink it.

Why can't we simply impose the same restrictions on straws?

Then, too, most zoos have been refusing to issue disposable straws for decades, because they're a potential hazard to the animals, but they're more than happy to sell you a reusable cup with an attached reusable straw.

 

[UncleRogi]

Why is it that seemingly obvious solutions escape our politicians?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

You don't automatically get straws here. If you buy a coke at a restaurant it does not come with one. It's been decades since I used one.

 

[ALF]

The Human Rights courts are going to be busy (this lady already has reason to sue), and so will the government lawyers if a straw ban is made into law. That would be a Charter violation on the basis of disability.

You might be on to something here... although as with every kind of violation, the person pursing damages will have their work cut out for them. I know that Ontario has clearly defined accessible design standards but I am not sure about the rest of Canada.

What about reusable straws made out of, wait for it, plastic?

I never expect to take my own fork to a restaurant, and those are not disposable.

Plastic straw, dishwasher safe.

Butters has a good point. I think part of the solution is going to have to involve restaurants providing the instruments that will convey nourishment to the customer and if you had some higher quality, multi-use bendy straws that will go through a dishwasher.... that could work.

I’d never been could be offended by rude staff over something trivial, and I wouldn’t even hear about it.

How is being able to drink the beverage you ordered trivial?

You do realize that we're talking about disabled people, right? People who are elderly, paralyzed, have had surgeries that make it difficult or impossible to drink like a non-disabled person, or who are afflicted with diseases such as cancer, Parkinson's, or multiple sclerosis, all of which can make it difficult or impossible for a person to drink normally or use a straw quickly and easily?

I guess you have to be there, or around people with these difficulties, to get why this is such a big problem.

Absolutely, Timewalker, It's tough for able bodied people to get the big picture.

There are a number of daily inconveniences that are obvious to people in wheelchairs for example - sand, slush impassible or doors that are too narrow, etc. But there are many other unforeseen barriers that are problematic, too.

• The traffic light is too short to get the manual wheelchair across the street in time.
• The "accessible" mall has a store you wanted to go to, but that one store is not accessible (after hiring a $100 taxi to get you there).
• Something that could be easily accessible, such as an ATM, may have security features that seem practical but fail to allow access for all.

Our objective should be to create a world that people with disabilities will want to live in.

There's a restaurant I go to that only offers straws upon request in an attempt to cut down on waste. That seems like a decent compromise until better options are widely available. Personally I've gone towards using refillable cups, I keep water in a vacuum sealed drink thermos to keep it cold and I have a glass cup for Starbucks with an attached plastic straw.

You don't automatically get straws here. If you buy a coke at a restaurant it does not come with one. It's been decades since I used one.

Straw upon request = great. This is a measured, balanced approach. teacake, I'm wondering which country do you live in? Because that's really interesting that drinks don't automatically come with straws. Starbucks certainly seems to be taking the lead on sustainable conveyances - their shops (that I've seen) are also pretty good about having accessible amenities.
I'm the worst kind of Canadian: one who doesn't go to Tim Horton's (our major coffee chain) so I couldn't tell you about their sustainability policies. Maybe another canuck around here can chime in.

Thank you for posting this. I had actually seen the Star article you linked to a couple days ago, and was ashamed to realize at the time that I hadn't even thought of that as a possible issue. We should be able to come up with a compromise that doesn't make things more difficult for people living with disabilities.

Cheers, Avro Arrow. It's fantastic that the issue's been identified and being discussed. The bummer is that many places have jumped the gun and gotten rid of their straws already - God almighty, if they threw them all in the garbage... if that's the case, all they've done is inconvenience the vulnerable. Moreso.

It reminds me of the issue a few years back with electric cars. Better for the environment... but it turns out that their engines ran so quietly, visually impaired people couldn't hear them in traffic, and it was putting their lives at risk. It ended up getting mandated that electric cars make some kind of noise at low speeds to remedy this.

Another excellent example of a design change that is seen as having no drawbacks, until it does... my goodness, how terrifying to be struck by a vehicle that you can't hear coming.

Until alternatives are widely available, I think 'bring your own straw' will be the likely solution.

Sadly, I think you are right if the bars and restaurants all jump without thinking onto the bandwagon. I've indicated up-post as to why we can't continue to make life difficult for people with disabilities.

Who wants to be that server telling a quadriplegic to go find their own straw?

As to restaurants, we in drought-stricken California have had laws, at times, forbidding restaurants from serving glasses of water unless the customer asks for one, which is perfectly reasonable, given that it takes at least a good quart of water to wash, rinse, sanitize, and fill a 10-oz glass, and there's no point in serving water if the customer isn't going to drink it.

Why can't we simply impose the same restrictions on straws?
.

Sounds reasonable to me. It is so ironic that it takes that much water to clean an empty glass.

Why is it that seemingly obvious solutions escape our politicians?

Perhaps there is nothing sexy or rewarding about being practical? There should be a Nobel-class award for politicians who champion success through efficient means.

The thoughtful comments and points of view are very helpful all, thank you.

A combination of restaurants keeping (a small number of) plastic planet-killing straws on hand only for people with disabilities OR plastic bendy straws that are reusable/can survive a dishwasher - both seem like workable solutions for now.