Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP arc

[Christopher]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Okay... I guess what misled me is that you said "the TP." The Typhon Pact is the astropolitical entity that's depicted within the books. The label/brand is simply Typhon Pact.

 

[RonG]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Okay... I guess what misled me is that you said "the TP." The Typhon Pact is the astropolitical entity that's depicted within the books. The label/brand is simply Typhon Pact.

exactly

One thing you wrote, Christopher, did catch my eye and I was wondering what you meant:

And by the same token, it's too early to say it's the end of that arc, since we don't know yet whether Brinkmanship will be a separate thing or a direct continuation of the same threads, and we don't know whether future works will do a similar kind of retroactive arc creation/consolidation.

What threads do you feel require continuation or are left "hanging" post-RtD?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

One thing you wrote, Christopher, did catch my eye and I was wondering what you meant:

And by the same token, it's too early to say it's the end of that arc, since we don't know yet whether Brinkmanship will be a separate thing or a direct continuation of the same threads, and we don't know whether future works will do a similar kind of retroactive arc creation/consolidation.

What threads do you feel require continuation or are left "hanging" post-RtD?

I didn't say I felt anything of the sort. But I'm not the one writing the next book. If PoN/RtD could take previously standalone books and unify them into a tighter narrative, then another author could take a seemingly "finished" story and decide to carry it further. I'm just saying that the way the storyline looks to you now isn't necessarily how it might look a year from now after more has been done with it -- just as the way it looks now isn't the way it looked a year ago.

 

[ATimson]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

So the decision was made to label those books with a Typhon Pact banner and without their individual series titles. But that was about what went on the covers, not about what went between the covers.

No, the Typhon Pact branding was carried inside the book, too. The novels used a brand new, unified page design (unlike older supposedly-similar crossovers like Gateways, which used each series' own designs, or like Destiny which used the post-Nemesis TNG design).

The marketing decision may have not affected the text itself, but it certainly affected the presentation of it!

 

[Christopher]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

So the decision was made to label those books with a Typhon Pact banner and without their individual series titles. But that was about what went on the covers, not about what went between the covers.

No, the Typhon Pact branding was carried inside the book, too. The novels used a brand new, unified page design (unlike older supposedly-similar crossovers like Gateways, which used each series' own designs, or like Destiny which used the post-Nemesis TNG design).

Have you been taking Spock lessons? I didn't mean it that literally. I was metaphorically saying that the sales decision did not dictate the creative decisions that led to the story.

 

[Jarvisimo]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Brinkmanship - so much potential based on author and constituent elements (Aventine - dearly needing Destiny-level attention, Cardassians, Ferengi, and Tzenkethi!) I am hoping for some cameos - or indeed more than that - from Hollow Men, Lotus Flower and The Never-ending Sacrifice. And hopefully old favourites like Keiko, Rom, Leeta and Brunt (the bounty hunter?!) too.

 

[JD]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Yeah, Brunt's new gig was introduced in Reservoir Ferengi, which was a great story by the way.

 

[ATimson]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Have you been taking Spock lessons? I didn't mean it that literally. I was metaphorically saying that the sales decision did not dictate the creative decisions that led to the story.

And that's what I thought you meant.

I'll admit I have something of an axe to grind here. We keep being told by you and other authors that the Typhon Pact books aren't meant to be what they're packaged as. But... well, that's how they're packaged. I think it's perfectly fair that they should be judged as what they're presenting themselves as: a coherent narrative unit.

 

[Sci]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Have you been taking Spock lessons? I didn't mean it that literally. I was metaphorically saying that the sales decision did not dictate the creative decisions that led to the story.

And that's what I thought you meant.

I'll admit I have something of an axe to grind here. We keep being told by you and other authors that the Typhon Pact books aren't meant to be what they're packaged as. But... well, that's how they're packaged. I think it's perfectly fair that they should be judged as what they're presenting themselves as: a coherent narrative unit.

But... they weren't packaged as a coherent narrative unit. None of the plot synopses before Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn indicated any sort of narrative cohesion. They were packaged as a group of novels about the Typhon Pact, that's all. Sure, they were an "event," but that's not the same thing.

I mean, Star Trek: Section 31 was an "event," but it wasn't a cohesive narrative unit. Star Trek: The Lost Era was an "event," but it wasn't a cohesive narrative unit. Star Trek: Section 31 and Star Trek: The Lost Era, like Star Trek: Typhon Pact, were miniseries with a unifying theme but no cohesive narrative. Are you going to object to the way Star Trek: Section 31 and Star Trek: The Lost Era were advertised, too?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

I'll admit I have something of an axe to grind here. We keep being told by you and other authors that the Typhon Pact books aren't meant to be what they're packaged as. But... well, that's how they're packaged. I think it's perfectly fair that they should be judged as what they're presenting themselves as: a coherent narrative unit.

And I wouldn't be surprised (though I'm just speculating here) if that was part of the reason why the duology was more interconnected than the first set of books -- because it's a better fit for what the readers are expecting based on the presentation.

But you're still talking about a different issue from what I meant in the statement that you quoted. I thought (incorrectly, it seems) that RonG had the mistaken impression that the creation of the Pact concept was dictated by marketing considerations, and I was clarifying that it was conceived for creative reasons and the marketing choices came later. After all, the first Typhon Pact book, A Singular Destiny, came out 21 months before the first book with a Typhon Pact label. So all I'm saying is that the creation of the story concept preceded the creation of the brand. (And it seems to me that people sometimes forget the key role ASD played in the Pact narrative because it doesn't have the label on it. I've seen a number of posters call Zero Sum Game the first Pact novel, overlooking ASD altogether.)

 

[RonG]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

But you're still talking about a different issue from what I meant in the statement that you quoted. I thought (incorrectly, it seems) that RonG had the mistaken impression that the creation of the Pact concept was dictated by marketing considerations, and I was clarifying that it was conceived for creative reasons and the marketing choices came later. After all, the first Typhon Pact book, A Singular Destiny, came out 21 months before the first book with a Typhon Pact label. So all I'm saying is that the creation of the story concept preceded the creation of the brand. (And it seems to me that people sometimes forget the key role ASD played in the Pact narrative because it doesn't have the label on it. I've seen a number of posters call Zero Sum Game the first Pact novel, overlooking ASD altogether.)

ASD is very much the start of what I think of as the first arc of the TP/ Post-Destiny "era" - In my OP, I mentioned that I personally (and some - like Christopher - may disagree with that particular point) see ASD as the starting point of 3 distinct arcs, the main one centered on the rise of the TP and the battle for Slipstream, against the backdrop of the post-Borg invasion recovery.

With that in mind, and regardless of the initial intention of TPTB, I also group (in my personal continuity) ASD, Losing the Peace and Indistinguishable from Magic, as parts of this arc, the rationale for which has been detailed in my OP.

Notice that none of these novels have the Typhon Pact branding. In addition, though it *does* have the TP branding, I don't consider StF as part of this arc, but rather a part of the Titan's overall arc and specifically the post-Destiny adventures - to be continued in Fallen Gods.

Whether Brinkmanship can be considered a part of the first arc, the start of the second, or something else entirely (like connecting to David Mack's upcoming trilogy?), remains, of course, to be seen.

 

[RonG]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

BTW are there other TNG novels scheduled between Brinkmanship and Cold Equations?

Maybe David Mack can hint a bit whether his trilogy is connected to Brinkmanship?

 

[Paris]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

BTW are there other TNG novels scheduled between Brinkmanship and Cold Equations?

Maybe David Mack can hint a bit whether his trilogy is connected to Brinkmanship?

As far as I know, there's no time between the two. Brinkmanship is scheduled to come out in late September, while Mack's Cold Equations starts the next month in late October..

 

[RonG]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

As we're already in mid-July, shouldn't we get some teases, clues and tibbits from Mr. Mack?

 

[RonG]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

Looking back on this thread from the perspective of having read Brinkmanship and the Cold Equations trilogy, I think that my OP regarding the Typhon Pact novels being an "arc" (or multi novel narrative) is even more valid now

As I see it, the major post-Destiny Trilogy TrekLit "arcs" go as follows:

1. Rise of the Typhon Pact and its "Cold War" with the UFP – this arc begins with A Singular Destiny and Losing The Peace, both showing the overall astro-political land(star)scape in the aftermath of Destiny, while revealing the TP powers bit by bit. The narrative jumps a bit in time to the "main" TP novels – from Zero Sum Game to DRG3's DS9 duology – covering the battle for Slipstream, with "side stories" like the Romulan political angle, the inner workings of the various Pact members etc. Brinkmanship brings a nice "post-arc" tale, starring the Aventine (which starred in both ASD in the first branded TP novel - ZSG). In my OP I had originally included Indistinguishable from Magic in this arc, but it seems to have been mostly ignored by later TNG novels.
   
2. Voyager's return to the Delta Quadrant and Project Full Circle – this arc is chronicled in Kirsten Beyer's 4 VOY novels to date, seemingly reaching a sort-of conclusion for the "first part of the Re-Relaunch".
   
3. Titan's (mostly serial) adventures – as chronicled in Over a Torrent Sea, Synthesis, the Typhon Pact-branded Seize the Fire and Fallen Gods.
   
4. The Cold Equations trilogy – encompassing major events in the lives of the TNG cast, this trilogy basically follows the above-mentioned "Typhon Pact arc", also featuring the next developments in the TP and the "next" struggle with the UFP, now involving Android, AI's etc.
   
5. The Fall – I believe that this will be the "third arc" featuring the TP and its fall (IMO the title of this series concerns the Pact, though it's just conjecture at this point..).

Your thoughts / comments are, as always, very much appreciated

 

[RonG]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

um... no one?

 

[Markonian]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

um... no one?

Me! Me!

I hope the Typhon Pact won't fall so soon. There's much potential (in-universe and storytelling-wise) in the Pact, it would be a shame. Think of what could still happen! New powers joining, internal fracture, transformation into a new state or Federation... They haven't even met the Taurus Pact yet!

Well, counting a trilogy as an arc is... obvious? Imho, it was just a 'trilogy arc', in contrast to TP which is ongoing with no end in sight. As is Project Full Circle (real world perspective - no new book before 2014).

Another ongoing arc is the Andorian struggle, started with DS9-R and far from a conclusion.

An ongoing TNG storyline is the character development, slowly preparing us for the crew of 2387, whether it meshes with the comic (Data's return, Lt. Aneta Šmrhová, Joanna Faur, retiring Picard) or not (Data's return: how).

 

[Defcon]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

1. The Fall – I believe that this will be the "third arc" featuring the TP and its fall (IMO the title of this series concerns the Pact, though it's just conjecture at this point..).

Given the origin of the series title this is unlikely I would think.

The miniseries was named "the fall miniseries", because it was scheduled for the season of fall, and it was only as we began batting around ideas, and someone said, "this is all turning pretty grim maybe we should call it The Fall, that's kind of ominous". We all thought it was a good laugh and a good joke. Then the editor said, "actually that's not bad, we'll go with that", and we're like, "what have we done?"

by David Mack in his Literary Treks interview, transcribed by 8of5 for thetrekcollective.com.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

The miniseries was named "the fall miniseries", because it was scheduled for the season of fall, and it was only as we began batting around ideas, and someone said, "this is all turning pretty grim maybe we should call it The Fall, that's kind of ominous". We all thought it was a good laugh and a good joke. Then the editor said, "actually that's not bad, we'll go with that", and we're like, "what have we done?"

This is why you should call it autumn. You would avoid that sickening sense of dread that comes with the ominous approach of the fall.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Re: Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn – conclusion of the first TP a

The miniseries was named "the fall miniseries", because it was scheduled for the season of fall, and it was only as we began batting around ideas, and someone said, "this is all turning pretty grim maybe we should call it The Fall, that's kind of ominous". We all thought it was a good laugh and a good joke. Then the editor said, "actually that's not bad, we'll go with that", and we're like, "what have we done?"

This is why you should call it autumn. You would avoid that sickening sense of dread that comes with the ominous approach of the fall.

Considering that it's a forerunner to the winter, I would say that sickening sense of dread is more than appropriate!