Place Names in Picard

[jespah]

So! I was wondering if others were noticing these.

There have been a few place names already which have other meanings (almost like how of course Quark, Rom, Nog, etc. are real English words).

Vashti - she was the Queen of Persia and the first wife of Ahasuerus (Xerxes I) in the biblical book of Esther. Vashti in the book of Esther was banished because she refused to allow herself to be paraded around naked in front of the king's drinking buddies. See https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/vashti-bible

Hypatia - she is the earliest known female mathematician. She was also torn apart by a mob. See https://www.britannica.com/biography/Hypatia

Of course everything in this series is intentional. And there are other place names which don't fit these observations. But it does make me wonder. Apart from commemorating women (Vashti is possibly fictional but Hypathia was very real) who were mistreated, why are the show writers using these names?

Thoughts? Or wrong answers only?

 

[Timo]

Space places were named by humans of (Mediterrainean/ Middle East) antiquity, after humans of antiquity, everybody knows that! Why should this change in the future?

We don't know if Hypatia with its Seven Domes is a human place. But it is entitled to having a human name, just like it no doubt also has a Klingon name, a Ferengi name and a number of colorful Tellarite names. Plus a dull Borg designation. We just happen to hear the human version because we're humans. (Well, most of us anyway).

What I find interesting is the fantasy vibe with the names instead. Vergessen is quite poetic, as is the Seven Domes thing; Daimanta is suggestive; Vashti might well be related to this Zhat Vash lot since we can blame Romulans for both names. And then we get the Viking reference for Seven's team. Almost as if real folks were doing the naming, that is, giving names with a meaning.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[urbandk]

This Space.com review brings up the etymology of both Vashti and Vergessen, and I think you're absolutely right.

 

[jespah]

Interesting, thank you.

 

[Takeru]

As a german I hated the name "Vergessen" for the planet, it means "forgotten" or "to forget" but no german would use it as a name for a place. It feels like someone wanted a meaningful name (maybe about forgotten victims the borg, black market etc.?) and fired up google translate but the result doesn't work, it sounds very clunky.

 

[Hythlodeus]

As a german I hated the name "Vergessen" for the planet, it means "forgotten" or "to forget" but no german would use it as a name for a place. It feels like someone wanted a meaningful name (maybe about forgotten victims the borg, black market etc.?) and fired up google translate but the result doesn't work, it sounds very clunky.

meh, it works fine for me. YMMV

 

[Jedi_Master]

So! I was wondering if others were noticing these.

There have been a few place names already which have other meanings (almost like how of course Quark, Rom, Nog, etc. are real English words).

Vashti - she was the Queen of Persia and the first wife of Ahasuerus (Xerxes I) in the biblical book of Esther. Vashti in the book of Esther was banished because she refused to allow herself to be paraded around naked in front of the king's drinking buddies. See https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/vashti-bible

Hypatia - she is the earliest known female mathematician. She was also torn apart by a mob. See https://www.britannica.com/biography/Hypatia

Of course everything in this series is intentional. And there are other place names which don't fit these observations. But it does make me wonder. Apart from commemorating women (Vashti is possibly fictional but Hypathia was very real) who were mistreated, why are the show writers using these names?

Thoughts? Or wrong answers only?

There seems to be some intentional effort to include names from what we now consider to be the middle east. Rios' former vessel was a Starfleet vessel with an Arabic name.
It's a nice touch to illustrate the diversity that the Federation is purported to have, but has been rarely portrayed up to this point, as Trek tends to only show "aliens" as having diverse or unique cultures.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

As a german I hated the name "Vergessen" for the planet, it means "forgotten" or "to forget" but no german would use it as a name for a place. It feels like someone wanted a meaningful name (maybe about forgotten victims the borg, black market etc.?) and fired up google translate but the result doesn't work, it sounds very clunky.

There is a German city "To Eat."

(Yes, I know Essen is actually a corruption of a far longer name for the religious order.)

 

[Blip]

There seems to be some intentional effort to include names from what we now consider to be the middle east. Rios' former vessel was a Starfleet vessel with an Arabic name.
It's a nice touch to illustrate the diversity that the Federation is purported to have, but has been rarely portrayed up to this point, as Trek tends to only show "aliens" as having diverse or unique cultures.

Agreed. I got a bit fckn sick of Trek's diehard habits of idolising Euro/America-centric vessels and historical figures by naming starships after them. All it did was endorse and perpetuate the west's whitewashing of history, which if anything the franchise should have tried to avoid if it was sincere about portraying a better vision of humanity.

 

[Hythlodeus]

There is a German city "To Eat."

(Yes, I know Essen is actually a corruption of a far longer name for the religious order.)

There's also the Austrian village of Fucking which translates to nothing particular

 

[jespah]

I like how Disco has also used more diverse ship names (Shenzhou, etc.). The less homogeneity, the more real it feels, at least to me.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

There's also the Austrian village of Fucking which translates to nothing particular

IINM, Pforzheim sounds like an onomatopoiea for flatulence.

 

[Hythlodeus]

IINM, Pforzheim sounds like an onomatopoiea for flatulence.

I only stayed there for one night, but it definatley is

 

[Cake]

As a german I hated the name "Vergessen" for the planet, it means "forgotten" or "to forget" but no german would use it as a name for a place. It feels like someone wanted a meaningful name (maybe about forgotten victims the borg, black market etc.?) and fired up google translate but the result doesn't work, it sounds very clunky.

Considering that people in the main episode thread made at once the connection to Mengele, I think this is a typical case of Americans stereotyping. Germans in US series and movies are very often Nazis or other bad guys. So no wonder that they chose a German word for that horrible place. I bet they didn't think of using for example a Hawaiian or Slovenian word. In their minds German = bad/evil therefore a fitting name.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Considering that people in the main episode thread made at once the connection to Mengele, I think this is a typical case of Americans stereotyping. Germans in US series and movies are very often Nazis or other bad guys. So no wonder that they chose a German word for that horrible place. I bet they didn't think of using for example a Hawaiian or Slovenian word. In their minds German = bad/evil therefore a fitting name.

I think I was the first to make the connection and let me tell you, it's not just a stereotype. We are evil. Stop us.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I did not associate Vergessen directly with Mengele, but with the Vergangenheitsbewältigung, which still refers to Nazism and the Holocaust.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Vergessen was just one of the twin planets of that system. Just like Romulus and Remus, these planets were called Vergeben and Vergessen

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Vergessen was just one of the twin planets of that system. Just like Romulus and Remus, these planets were called Vergeben and Vergessen

I think the same system also contains a perfect replica of Earth called Verbatim.

 

[DEWLine]

I did not associate Vergessen directly with Mengele, but with the Vergangenheitsbewältigung, which still refers to Nazism and the Holocaust.

It seems to me that most real-worlds Earth nations in the here and now have their own Vergangenheitsbewältigung to have. Canada's version centres on how our governments of the day engineered their own attempt to "solve" the Indigenous peoples' existence.

But I digress...

 

[Timo]

There seems to be some intentional effort to include names from what we now consider to be the middle east. Rios' former vessel was a Starfleet vessel with an Arabic name.
It's a nice touch to illustrate the diversity that the Federation is purported to have, but has been rarely portrayed up to this point, as Trek tends to only show "aliens" as having diverse or unique cultures.

Hmh? VOY and DS9 ship names were at least as diverse as any in PIC or DSC. Various Earth cultures, assorted alien ones, plus Earth-fictional stuff. I don't see this show breaking any new ground yet. But there are planets in PIC that do appear to have been named. As opposed to having a name slapped on them by somebody uninvolved, that is.

Timo Saloniemi