Pitch your alternative to 'Shades of Grey'

[Lance]

Well, they did have some writing, but an incredibly limited shooting time, 3 days in fact

I think the biggest flaw was in their application of a clip show, which was admittedly a feasible solution to their predicament. If I were in their position, and really had very little wiggle room, as they did, I might make a similar choice to do a clip show for a bottle episode, because there's been plenty of clip shows from other tv series that worked well. Hell, The Menagerie from TOS is a brilliant application of a clip show

I think the easiest way to make what they were aiming for work better would've been to take the episode away from Riker & Troi, right off. Riker was sill too weakly developed at the time to fully carry a clip show.

Instead, have Wesley be the one who gets infected, & Picard be the one present throughout. Troi could be there maybe, to do her empathy nonsense if need be, but the prominent performance should've fallen to Stewart (I mean c'mon. No brainer)

As for the clips, the application of how they were included was one of the lamer aspects of the episode. How they should've been used is as flashbacks, to the more worthwhile experiences in Wesley's time aboard the Enterprise, his time spent with Picard in Samaritan Snare. His time with Riker & Guinan In The Dauphin, his early scenes on the bridge, bothering Picard

Basically a retrospective on the experiences of a child aboard a starship, as his life hangs in the balance. Meanwhile Picard struggles with having been made responsible for him, while his mother is away, & facing the grim possibility that he may yet again be informing Beverly (Who hadn't even been in the season) that he's lost someone else close to her

There is some dramatic worth there, and it's something they could even build on when Gates returned the following season. All Wheaton would've had to do is lay in a bed & let Stewart chew up the screen, with occasional breaks to highlight some of the more useful moments of Wesley's time there

I don't think I could come up with a better alternative than this. You hit this one outta the park, Mojochi.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, they did have some writing, but an incredibly limited shooting time, 3 days in fact

I think the biggest flaw was in their application of a clip show, which was admittedly a feasible solution to their predicament. If I were in their position, and really had very little wiggle room, as they did, I might make a similar choice to do a clip show for a bottle episode, because there's been plenty of clip shows from other tv series that worked well. Hell, The Menagerie from TOS is a brilliant application of a clip show

I think the easiest way to make what they were aiming for work better would've been to take the episode away from Riker & Troi, right off. Riker was sill too weakly developed at the time to fully carry a clip show.

Instead, have Wesley be the one who gets infected, & Picard be the one present throughout. Troi could be there maybe, to do her empathy nonsense if need be, but the prominent performance should've fallen to Stewart (I mean c'mon. No brainer)

As for the clips, the application of how they were included was one of the lamer aspects of the episode. How they should've been used is as flashbacks, to the more worthwhile experiences in Wesley's time aboard the Enterprise, his time spent with Picard in Samaritan Snare. His time with Riker & Guinan In The Dauphin, his early scenes on the bridge, bothering Picard

Basically a retrospective on the experiences of a child aboard a starship, as his life hangs in the balance. Meanwhile Picard struggles with having been made responsible for him, while his mother is away, & facing the grim possibility that he may yet again be informing Beverly (Who hadn't even been in the season) that he's lost someone else close to her

There is some dramatic worth there, and it's something they could even build on when Gates returned the following season. All Wheaton would've had to do is lay in a bed & let Stewart chew up the screen, with occasional breaks to highlight some of the more useful moments of Wesley's time there

I don't think I could come up with a better alternative than this. You hit this one outta the park, Mojochi.

Agreed. Much better. Now go back in time and make it so!

 

[Mojochi]

Thanks folks

If the budget is the problem, what about having a clip show that is, instead of the more memorable moment, is instead all the establishing shots and cooridor walking scenes. Have a story where most of it is told in voice over, or in some respects like "Data's Day", as a log entry or letter. Use old footage of people walking around or sitting in seats, their audio more or less muted with a new voice over and music track instead telling about life on the ship, or about some problem. Then use places like the bridge and cooridors only to slice in new scenes with the old clips to keep the story going. Then use the old cooridor clips to move the story to someone quarters or standing set, and continue the story. The use of voice overs could allow less stage filming and more post work done by less people.

I thought about this too. Similar to the way M*A*S*H did their *Documentary* clip show, with the war correspondent guy

 

[Destructor]

Apparently the original pitch for 'The Drumhead' (one of my fav eps) was for a clip-show where Admr. Satie 'flashed back' to all the various 'crimes' Picard had committed during his tenure as Captain), but Ron Moore managed to work the script into a low-budget bottle episode that was actually very good for just a bunch of people talking in a room.

However I don't think the original idea was that bad and I think it would have been better than SoG. SoG's clips were basically random, given the conceit. If the conceit had been: "Let's review every hard decision Picard has made thus far, through the lens of a skeptical Starfleet Admiral." it would have given the episode more focus, and lead all of the clips to a solid conclusion. Obviously it's better that 'The Drumhead' was made instead, but I could have watched/enjoyed a clip show about that, I think. Picard making angry/serious faces and trying to justify his decisions would have been better than Riker writhing on a bed!

That would have been a great clip show for Voyager- flash-forward to an old Janeway, after she'd gotten Voyager home, and have her justify her various decisions in the Delta Quadrant voyage to a panel of Starfleet jerks.

 

[Mojochi]

^Agreed, but The Drumhead came at the end of season 4 & SoG came at the end of season 2. It may have been a tall order to have a plot like that with only 2 seasons under their belt. They hadn't really developed enough, and for the most part, Picard hadn't made all those tough decisions yet. Mostly, the officers handled themselves too well to call into question their actions

That's why I don't hate on SoG that much. It's bad, sure, but being boxed in a corner and ending up doing a clip show when the show was still so undeveloped was a doomed project, especially because those episodes were all over the place. Finding a unifying idea or theme for which they could sample from throughout is tough no matter what they did

 

[Trek Survivor]

Clip shows are sort of a conceit when it comes to sitcoms and usually the clips shown are there to relive funny moments. But the thing is, they're done on sitcoms! And at that, usually not until the show has at least 100 episodes under its belt.

Not, you know, around 50.

Still don't see why it's OK for sitcoms but not for dramas?

And, while I know it falls somewhere between the two, "The A-Team" had a clip show - and it was, coincidentally, the season 2 finale (after less than 40 episodes).

Take out the clips of old episodes and redo the clips to show parts of Riker's life we've never seen. How he coped when his mum died. The argument with Captain DeSoto when Riker refused to let him beam down to the planet. Things like that. Show us new stuff that actually adds depth to his character instead of just showing what we've already seen. If I wanted to go and see bits of old episodes, I would have just watched the old episodes, dammit!

Um...then it wouldn't be a clip show would it? It would be a new, potentially expensive, episode and it was the cost that was the driving the need for a clip show!

Like I said, I'm in the minority of one, but SoG - while hardly a "good" episode - is still better than "Justice", "Code Of Honour", "Angel One" and probably a few more before it.

 

[Trekker4747]

Still don't see why it's OK for sitcoms but not for dramas?

Different standards of quality, what is expected and of "reality."

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Sitcoms are meant to be disposable.

 

[Mojochi]

Still don't see why it's OK for sitcoms but not for dramas?

Different standards of quality, what is expected and of "reality."

Stargate & Sex in The City have both done clip shows, and Lost had breaks in their season where they put in recap episodes, which I know is not entirely the same thing, but quite similar. So though it's most frequented by sitcoms, it's not unheard of to be used elsewhere, especially in Soap Operas

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Soap operas are also meant to be disposable. Dramas are meant to tell an engrossing story, and it's much harder for clip shows to replicate the tone of the story for a serious show than a silly show.

'Politics' worked for Stargate because they found a context where they could have it happen in the same tone and same beat as a regular episode.

A recap episode isn't a clip show, it's basically padding/filler so the network can properly align the episode they want with the date they want. When you are marathoning a show on Netflix, it doesn't include the recap shows.

 

[Trekker4747]

There's certainly ways a clip show can be done in more serious toned series but I'd argue it's very, very hard to do. And "this character is sick and the only way to make him better is to make him relive bad memories that just happen to be memories of things that have happened to him in the last year and half" isn't one of them.

The suggestion up-thread of Picard thinking of Wesley's time on the Enterprise with Wesley's life hanging in the balance could've certainly worked as a clip show while being dramatically significant.

 

[Lance]

My only beef with Shades of Gray is that it was obviously too early for a clip show of this kind. If it had been made anytime later in the show's run, even one year later than it was, then I think it could have been dramatically more satisfying, as the show would have had enough history behind it to supply plenty of variety in its clips. But there were only a relatively small number of episodes made by the end of Season 2. Not much to choose from. So they just ended up using random moments tied together very broadly with this idea of Riker feeling different emotions.

I'm very much an apologist for the linking segments however, I think all concerned do the very best that they can with that material (and I absolutely *love* the end scene! )

 

[Makarov]

For a clip show idea, how about greenscreening Q into some past footage? Or make it a time travel anomaly and then just greenscreen characters into another episode and doing some plot with that.

 

[Mojochi]

Soap operas are also meant to be disposable. Dramas are meant to tell an engrossing story, and it's much harder for clip shows to replicate the tone of the story for a serious show than a silly show.

'Politics' worked for Stargate because they found a context where they could have it happen in the same tone and same beat as a regular episode.

A recap episode isn't a clip show, it's basically padding/filler so the network can properly align the episode they want with the date they want. When you are marathoning a show on Netflix, it doesn't include the recap shows.

My only point is that these are just formula designs, and as such they are open to any amount of artistic merit as are applied to them. It's unfair to judge the usage on the level of it being beneath them in some way

Think of it like when rap music was using sampled tracks to build their songs. Were there completely disposable applications of it? absolutely, but were there also people using the format to create something incredibly artistic also? Damn straight

Basically, just because a form is used most frequently in a frivolous nature, doesn't necessitate that it must be so. With the proper application, even Star Trek could have a well done clip show. In fact, in the case of M*A*S*H, their show was comedy, but their clip show "The Interview" where they were interviewed by real life war correspondent Clete Roberts was more serious in nature. They were able to achieve something dramatic out of the format, that they wouldn't have been capable of without it

And let's not forget that TOS's The Menagerie is a wonderfully done clip show

 

[Nebusj]

Still don't see why it's OK for sitcoms but not for dramas?

And, while I know it falls somewhere between the two, "The A-Team" had a clip show - and it was, coincidentally, the season 2 finale (after less than 40 episodes).

And WKRP In Cincinnati did a clip show for its ninth episode, remarkably enough. (This oddity actually made sense: the show had been put on hiatus for retooling after its first eight episodes --- mostly, they put in a break room so characters would have more frequent and logical chances to interact --- and the ninth episode thus served as kind of a reintroduction of the show to an audience that, happily, gave it a new chance. And because they'd changed one of the cast they had to redo those scenes anyway.)

The animated series Clerks did a clip show for its second episode, but that was for obvious reasons, and included much newly-drawn footage.

 

[Tiberius]

Take out the clips of old episodes and redo the clips to show parts of Riker's life we've never seen. How he coped when his mum died. The argument with Captain DeSoto when Riker refused to let him beam down to the planet. Things like that. Show us new stuff that actually adds depth to his character instead of just showing what we've already seen. If I wanted to go and see bits of old episodes, I would have just watched the old episodes, dammit!

Um...then it wouldn't be a clip show would it? It would be a new, potentially expensive, episode and it was the cost that was the driving the need for a clip show!

Like I said, I'm in the minority of one, but SoG - while hardly a "good" episode - is still better than "Justice", "Code Of Honour", "Angel One" and probably a few more before it.

So what? Who says that SoG has to be a clip show? They could easily go back and film new inserts today to slot in to that episode.

 

[Ithekro]

My thought would be, instead of a clip show, it be a stock footage show. Just reuse of transitions, special effects shots, and other things to go between the new filmed stuff that is more or less just in static sets with few actors. Could even go as far as it being some sort of documentary, or Wesley filming for a school project, or life through Data's eyes (though that might require a loop of Yar swinging her hips in Naked Now).

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

For an inexpensive and quick clip show, the planet set in the beginning was just great, one of my favorites actually. And the idea was nice that, for once, we saw the crew on a regular old planet survey, dealing with nothing more exotic than the equivalent of a snake bite.

 

[Lance]

^ I agree. It's only seen from one angle (probably because they could only afford to build that one section!), but it's astonishingly effective for what it is.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Think of it like when rap music was using sampled tracks to build their songs. Were there completely disposable applications of it? absolutely, but were there also people using the format to create something incredibly artistic also? Damn straight

Yeah, but that analogy isn't accurate. Rap songs are taking a recording from a song and making it part of something new and different. The 'clip show' version of a rap song would be if Puff Daddy said 'Hey, this is just like that time we listened to Kashmir', and then proceeded to play the song.

Basically, just because a form is used most frequently in a frivolous nature, doesn't necessitate that it must be so. With the proper application, even Star Trek could have a well done clip show. In fact, in the case of M*A*S*H, their show was comedy, but their clip show "The Interview" where they were interviewed by real life war correspondent Clete Roberts was more serious in nature. They were able to achieve something dramatic out of the format, that they wouldn't have been capable of without it

True, but 99% of the time they decide to use clips as an alternative to writing an episode that costs more money, not as a pro-artistic decision. In that other 1% when they decide to use clips from previous episodes for reasons other than cost cutting, there's no problem with it.

And let's not forget that TOS's The Menagerie is a wonderfully done clip show

I wouldn't necessarily count that as a clip show because at the time nobody had seen The Cage.