Pine & Quinto

[darkshadow0001]

So when I'm at work I've been seeing a lot of Star Trek magazines with Pine & Quinto in front of them as Kirk & Spock. When I look at them, I see them as Kirk & Spock, a bit like Shatner & Nimoy's Kirk & Spock, but a bit different. Thinking about the new movie and the old characters, Pine & Quinto's variation really brought the characters alive again, and despite they are different people playing the parts, they bring out the true essence of the characters, I believe. Even the other cast members. As for JJ Abrams not being much of a Trek fan, I think he did an excellent job with the cast.

This may have been brought up before, if so I apologize but I was just thinking about this at the moment I keep seeing Star Trek magazines where I work so it's in my head almost all the time... lol

 

[indranee]

I agree with ya.

 

[Aashlee]

They've got the right chemistry to make those two characters work, and work well together.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

This brings up an interesting point for me. Quinto was born to wear those ears, and Urban has McCoy nailed down. But the most difficult one for me to accept is my favorite from Classic Trek: Kirk! I like the new Kirk well enough, but there are times when I "pine" for Shatner as the one in the center seat.

I had the same problem when New Voyages/Phase 2 got underway, but after a few episodes I had come to like Jim Cawley in the roll. I guess the same will happen with Abrams' vision.

 

[NileQT87]

I suspect that it's easier with the "character actor" roles than the male lead type roles to accept new actors. It strikes me that Spock and McCoy are and always have been character actor roles. Quinto is likely to only ever play character actor roles (he just doesn't look mainstream). Nimoy is another actor who was never going to be a leading man. They're both fantasy fodder and outside of that, both had the choices to pretty much either play villains or in Quinto's case, side-character gay guys. And Urban has essentially gone from a minor LotR human (fantasy gear) to playing a role that Kelley did as a character actor kind of role.

Shatner is just so blatantly SHATNER that he's practically a parody of himself at this point. Kirk, unlike the other roles, had an actor who was bigger than the character. Spock and McCoy are bigger characters than "Nimoy" and "Kelley". "Shatner" is bigger than Kirk.

This is probably why it was necessary that Spock and McCoy are played as more straight interpretations of already developed characters, while Pine couldn't take much from Shatner without it being a parody. Pine had to play Kirk without playing Shatner. Quinto and Urban wouldn't be penalized for taking from Nimoy and Kelley in that same way.

What Pine faces, however, that Quinto and Urban won't, is that Pine might face the Mark Hamill problem. He will have an uphill battle to be respected as an actor because he is a shoo-in for pretty boy leading man roles. Granted, even the Mark Hamill problem is a better place to be than doing Princess Diaries II and Lindsey Lohan movies. He's definitely gotten a step-up there. But Pine doesn't have the benefit of playing a character actor role whose character actor can be impersonated without coming off as a parody.

Quinto also has a benefit that Nimoy never had, in that he was already famous in another role and won't have to face the lifelong career path of BEING SPOCK. Quinto's already made a mark on popular culture playing a character he originated with his appearance and acting choices. A fresher face (though Quinto is relatively new, he was arguably the one with the biggest pre-existing fanbase--certainly the only one that could be described as "rabid") would have had a bigger problem of being seen as nothing but Spock.

Nimoy is famous for being Spock. When he does commercials, they are Star Trek-related. Shatner is famous for being himself. Kirk is famous for being Shatner. When Shatner does commercials, he's mocking himself, not Kirk. When he did the George Lucas special, the Star Trek/Star Wars rivalry aside, Shatner went right into parodying himself with his singing, not Star Trek.

 

[davejames]

I'll be really interested to see how Pine approaches the character in the next movie. Is he still going to basically be the same cocky, fun-loving guy as in this movie? Or is he going to transition into more of a serious military officer like Kirk was at the start of TOS?

Of course even Shatner's Kirk had loosened up quite a bit by the second season, so I guess Pine could just play him that way...

 

[Jeri]

Chris's CSI:Miami episode came around again last night, and he played a truly slimy villain. I'd seen it before, without knowing who he was. I saw his Guardian character last week, which was a kind of down-and-out bum who'd gotten into trouble. And I saw his Nazi in Smokin' Aces, plus his Princess Diaries' character. I've seen a clip of a movie where he plays a blind person. It seems like he's made an effort to stretch his gigs into different directions, and he creates interesting characters. I'm looking forward to seeing what he's able to do after this.

 

[Creedence]

Shatner is just so blatantly SHATNER that he's practically a parody of himself at this point. Kirk, unlike the other roles, had an actor who was bigger than the character. Spock and McCoy are bigger characters than "Nimoy" and "Kelley". "Shatner" is bigger than Kirk.

Outstanding!

 

[barnaclelapse]

Yeah, that's the big thing for me, the chemistry between them. It really wouldn't matter if they were each good at playing their respective characters, which they are. If the chemistry wasn't there I probably wouldn't care if they were good at playing Kirk and Spock. It was as important to me to see that in the new film as anything.

Pine, I'm still on the fence about as to whether or not I'd call him a good actor. I need to see him in a wider range of work. I'm just not prepared to get all gooey-eyed over his future as an actor until that happens.

Hopefully, he'll get the chance. Nile makes a good point with the Mark Hamill analogy.

 

[Jeri]

My TiVo just picked up Chris's interview on Ellen today; should be good.

 

[Maxum]

I suspect that it's easier with the "character actor" roles than the male lead type roles to accept new actors. It strikes me that Spock and McCoy are and always have been character actor roles. Quinto is likely to only ever play character actor roles (he just doesn't look mainstream). Nimoy is another actor who was never going to be a leading man. They're both fantasy fodder and outside of that, both had the choices to pretty much either play villains or in Quinto's case, side-character gay guys. And Urban has essentially gone from a minor LotR human (fantasy gear) to playing a role that Kelley did as a character actor kind of role.

This is probably why it was necessary that Spock and McCoy are played as more straight interpretations of already developed characters, while Pine couldn't take much from Shatner without it being a parody. Pine had to play Kirk without playing Shatner. Quinto and Urban wouldn't be penalized for taking from Nimoy and Kelley in that same way.

I agree that Quinto and Urban had far more leeway, and frankly, I think Urban did too much imitation of DeForest Kelly. He was very good, but he essentially replayed the same character. Quinto brought something different to Spock, in terms of more emotion, but it's still the same Spock I am familiar with from TOS. If Pine had imitated Shatner, it would have been death for the character, and he couldn't hide behind a stoic, calmly logical face, like Quinto. That must have been difficult for Pine.

What Pine faces, however, that Quinto and Urban won't, is that Pine might face the Mark Hamill problem. He will have an uphill battle to be respected as an actor because he is a shoo-in for pretty boy leading man roles. Granted, even the Mark Hamill problem is a better place to be than doing Princess Diaries II and Lindsey Lohan movies. He's definitely gotten a step-up there. But Pine doesn't have the benefit of playing a character actor role whose character actor can be impersonated without coming off as a parody.

I think Mark Hamill has gotten a raw deal over the years. After Star Wars ended, he went right into theater. He chose not to make more movies right away, and to instead return to the stage, and he was VERY successful. I think he spent five or more years acting on stage, and when he returned to Hollywood, they apparently had a lower opinion of "stage actors" as if they weren't "movie stars." People in Hollywood acted like he simply dropped out of acting for five plus years and never gave the respect deserved to stage actors. Harrison Ford went from one movie to the next, which launched his career, but I can't honestly say that Harrison Ford is a great actor. I'm not sure he would do well on stage at all.

Hamill deserves so much credit for making the Luke/Yoda scenes so memorable. Considering Hamill spent much of The Empire Strikes Back opposite a puppet, and yet sold every single scene with credibility and emotion is a testament to his talent. Okay, rant over.

That being said, I don't think Pine will have the Hamill problem. First, he has some solid performances under his belt (Smokin Aces and Bottleshock), and he is currently in a play that is giving him rave reviews. I'm sure he'll land a new movie role once the play ends (since his movie with Denzel Washington seems to have stalled). Pine is on quite a few producer/director's lists, so I'm sure he'll be fine. I certainly hope so because his performance was the one I enjoyed most in Star Trek, so I'm hoping to see him in something new soon.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

This thread is useless without pics.

 

[Jeri]

(Maxum, could you please email me at wilmawilcat over at yahoo?)

 

[diftorhehsmusma]

frankly, I think Urban did too much imitation of DeForest Kelly.

thank you!!!! not that i didn't love it, but what i don't love is everyone being so ga-ga over it. also, i don't quite see what's so hot about urban. part of it is that frankly, i adore spock and mccoy's endless teasing of him got on my last nerve. also, urban is a bit out of my personal age range.

i thought quinto was brilliant. i much less got the impression of him imitating nimoy as having a great understanding of the character he created.

but speaking for myself, i was never married to shatner's kirk. he mostly seemed shallow and dickish to me. i have seen every episode of TOS, and i never really felt for the guy. shatner can be very funny but, from my perspective, a swashbuckling starship captain he just ain't.
so i quite liked pine's adaptation of the character, i almost liked the guy. i don't know anything else about pine (i did see 'princess diaries 2' at some point, may heaven forgive me, but i don't remember anything about him in it) but i bought him in this role. kudos to him for making kirk a relatable guy, yet not unrecognisable. and anyway, it could be argued that he was the most affected by the changes in the timeline, so we should expect him to be a bit different that The Shat's presentation of him.

 

[trampledamage]

frankly, I think Urban did too much imitation of DeForest Kelly.

thank you!!!! not that i didn't love it, but what i don't love is everyone being so ga-ga over it. also, i don't quite see what's so hot about urban. part of it is that frankly, i adore spock and mccoy's endless teasing of him got on my last nerve. also, urban is a bit out of my personal age range.

I agree that McCoy's teasing of Spock in TOS did get too much - it's a problem in some of the novels too. I end up thinking McCoy's a real jackass.

Obviously I loved Urban's portrayal of McCoy, but not because it was an imitation of Kelley. I thought he brought a lot more besides. There's a lot more hooks to the portrayal of McCoy that need to be there or it wouldn't be McCoy - he needs a Southern accent, he has to be grumpy and he has to say at least some of the McCoy catchphrases. But I like what Urban did in between those parts, his frustration with Kirk, the fact he likes and admires Spock. It's difficult to describe, I just loved it

i thought quinto was brilliant. i much less got the impression of him imitating nimoy as having a great understanding of the character he created.

but speaking for myself, i was never married to shatner's kirk. he mostly seemed shallow and dickish to me. i have seen every episode of TOS, and i never really felt for the guy. shatner can be very funny but, from my perspective, a swashbuckling starship captain he just ain't.
so i quite liked pine's adaptation of the character, i almost liked the guy. i don't know anything else about pine (i did see 'princess diaries 2' at some point, may heaven forgive me, but i don't remember anything about him in it) but i bought him in this role. kudos to him for making kirk a relatable guy, yet not unrecognisable. and anyway, it could be argued that he was the most affected by the changes in the timeline, so we should expect him to be a bit different that The Shat's presentation of him.

I've never been too fussed by Shatner either. Most of my knowledge of TOS comes from the novels, so for me it's always been Kirk separate from Shatner. I like Pine's portrayal. I love his enthusiasm for everything, but also his doubts. He goes gung-ho into any problem, but he's not arrogant enough to assume he's necessarily right, he just hopes he is. He definitely leaps before he looks.

 

[diftorhehsmusma]

I agree that McCoy's teasing of Spock in TOS did get too much - it's a problem in some of the novels too. I end up thinking McCoy's a real jackass.

Obviously I loved Urban's portrayal of McCoy, but not because it was an imitation of Kelley. I thought he brought a lot more besides. There's a lot more hooks to the portrayal of McCoy that need to be there or it wouldn't be McCoy - he needs a Southern accent, he has to be grumpy and he has to say at least some of the McCoy catchphrases. But I like what Urban did in between those parts, his frustration with Kirk, the fact he likes and admires Spock. It's difficult to describe, I just loved it

i did too. he owned that character. i suppose with your stated knowledge of the characters from outside the broadcast show, perhaps you have a better grip on what exactly mccoy is like. i guess my problem is not at all with urban's performance. but.... he likes and admires spock? where? (other than that throw-away line before he really knows him.) ack, it's getting late.... but all i can really think of is in 'bread and circuses' i think it is, that scene where they are in the dungeon and he pretty much reads spock's mind - "you know why you aren't afraid of dying? you're afraid of living!" etc. and then after that he continues to tease spock in front of everyone for being a callous, emotionless alien. what an ass!
so, upon further consideration, i think i like urban's portrayal better. he comes across as less of a bigot. my problem is really with the character, not the actor.

I like Pine's portrayal. I love his enthusiasm for everything, but also his doubts. He goes gung-ho into any problem, but he's not arrogant enough to assume he's necessarily right, he just hopes he is. He definitely leaps before he looks.

that's it! exactly what i was getting at. second!

 

[trampledamage]

I agree that McCoy's teasing of Spock in TOS did get too much - it's a problem in some of the novels too. I end up thinking McCoy's a real jackass.

Obviously I loved Urban's portrayal of McCoy, but not because it was an imitation of Kelley. I thought he brought a lot more besides. There's a lot more hooks to the portrayal of McCoy that need to be there or it wouldn't be McCoy - he needs a Southern accent, he has to be grumpy and he has to say at least some of the McCoy catchphrases. But I like what Urban did in between those parts, his frustration with Kirk, the fact he likes and admires Spock. It's difficult to describe, I just loved it

i did too. he owned that character. i suppose with your stated knowledge of the characters from outside the broadcast show, perhaps you have a better grip on what exactly mccoy is like. i guess my problem is not at all with urban's performance. but.... he likes and admires spock? where? (other than that throw-away line before he really knows him.) ack, it's getting late.... but all i can really think of is in 'bread and circuses' i think it is, that scene where they are in the dungeon and he pretty much reads spock's mind - "you know why you aren't afraid of dying? you're afraid of living!" etc. and then after that he continues to tease spock in front of everyone for being a callous, emotionless alien. what an ass!
so, upon further consideration, i think i like urban's portrayal better. he comes across as less of a bigot. my problem is really with the character, not the actor.

In both the TV and the books, the writers seem to have used McCoy as a sledgehammer to point out the "human/emotional" side of things. It sometimes ruins McCoy as a character.

I'm really hoping the new movies will allow McCoy to be a subtler character - with Spock being slightly more emotional himself, maybe there can be space for McCoy to be logical sometimes.

I think this McCoy does admire Spock - the scene of the tribunal is obviously where he mentions it, but in the rest of the movie, McCoy treats both Spock and Kirk with the same level of frustration because they're both aggravating him. McCoy by nature isn't going to show much liking for anyone, but I think it's there.

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I agree that McCoy's teasing of Spock in TOS did get too much - it's a problem in some of the novels too. I end up thinking McCoy's a real jackass.

I really couldn't stand Mc Coy growing up. He was too abrasive and, well- obnoxious.

When I found out he was a fellow alum, and Kelley passed, he became that much more precious to me. Just like Sarek did when Mark Lenard died.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

Chris's CSI:Miami episode came around again last night, and he played a truly slimy villain. I'd seen it before, without knowing who he was. I saw his Guardian character last week, which was a kind of down-and-out bum who'd gotten into trouble. And I saw his Nazi in Smokin' Aces, plus his Princess Diaries' character. I've seen a clip of a movie where he plays a blind person. It seems like he's made an effort to stretch his gigs into different directions, and he creates interesting characters. I'm looking forward to seeing what he's able to do after this.

DAMN!!! i missed it. I caught it on YouTube but would have loved to have seen it in its original form.

And yeah, his character in Smokin' Aces PROOVES the guy has the chops to do other characters.

What i do fear is if he DOES take the Green Hornet (or Flash Gordon, or whatever the comic book role he is considering is) he WILL typecast himself more......

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The writers did something interesting with the roles - changed Kirk so that he and Spock would have more opposition with each other early on, and let them play off each other dramatically as they learn to deal with each other.

In TOS, we meet Kirk and Spock after they've already gotten to know each other. We don't even know how long they've been on the Enterprise together - are we two years into the five year mission? Did they know each other before? They have the emotion vs logic thing, but they've obviously settled into a comfortable groove.

Kirk's backstory originally made him somewhat Spocklike in his youth - overly serious and "grim" - which might be interesting for their later relationship but would spoil things if they're thrown together early on. That's the reason Kirk's youth had to change - now he's the wild child vs. Spock's "grim, serious" persona. A different dynamic than originally, but a lot of fun.

It does sort of beg the question of what happens with Spock & McCoy, assuming that will be dealt with in the next movie, because Kirk seems to be filling the "emotional antagonist" role that McCoy originally had vs Spock. Oh well you can't have everything.

And thanks for letting me know that Quinto & Pine were on SNL! I am so out of it. No idea that happened. See it on HuffPo!