Picard's grief in Generations

[kkozoriz1]

So Picard goes back in time and saves Robert and Rene. Then, two weeks later Rene falls out of a tree and Marie falls downt he stairs. Does he then track down the Nexus and save them again?

 

[Dukhat]

So Picard goes back in time and saves Robert and Rene. Then, two weeks later Rene falls out of a tree and Marie falls downt he stairs. Does he then track down the Nexus and save them again?

Absolutely he could. Which only proves my point about how absurd the entire concept of the Nexus was in this film.

^ Could Picard have proven what Soran was intending to do with that torpedo, even if he found it?

29th century Starfleet gets a free pass, since for Ducane to arrest Braxton for crimes that had not yet been committed suggests (to me, anyway) that they have developed a whole new system of law that allows for this sort of thing to happen. A system that would likely be incomprehensible to any of us. But Picard doesn't have that luxury with Soran. Even if Picard confiscated the torpedo and presented it to Starfleet, we don't know that it would be automatic evidence of Soran's guilt or even intent.

Let's see...Soran had that torpedo on the observatory. He made a deal with Lursa and B'etor about giving them trilithium. He set up an entire base on Veridian III with another torpedo ready to fire into the Veridian sun.

But most of all, there's Temporal Investigations. Picard could go to them and voice his concerns. And they could take care of things in whatever fictional way TI (or the writers) could come up with.

 

[kkozoriz1]

So Picard goes back in time and saves Robert and Rene. Then, two weeks later Rene falls out of a tree and Marie falls downt he stairs. Does he then track down the Nexus and save them again?

Absolutely he could. Which only proves my point about how absurd the entire concept of the Nexus was in this film.

^ Could Picard have proven what Soran was intending to do with that torpedo, even if he found it?

29th century Starfleet gets a free pass, since for Ducane to arrest Braxton for crimes that had not yet been committed suggests (to me, anyway) that they have developed a whole new system of law that allows for this sort of thing to happen. A system that would likely be incomprehensible to any of us. But Picard doesn't have that luxury with Soran. Even if Picard confiscated the torpedo and presented it to Starfleet, we don't know that it would be automatic evidence of Soran's guilt or even intent.

Let's see...Soran had that torpedo on the observatory. He made a deal with Lursa and B'etor about giving them trilithium. He set up an entire base on Veridian III with another torpedo ready to fire into the Veridian sun.

But most of all, there's Temporal Investigations. Picard could go to them and voice his concerns. And they could take care of things in whatever fictional way TI (or the writers) could come up with.

Except Temporal Investigations hadn't been invented yet. Someone would have to time travel and cause TI to come into existence sooner.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Soran had that torpedo on the observatory. He made a deal with Lursa and B'etor about giving them trilithium. He set up an entire base on Veridian III with another torpedo ready to fire into the Veridian sun.

Well, Lursa and B'Etor would obviously have been of no help in the investigation, since they (being known Romulan collaborators) would of course lie when it suited them. As for Soran and his equipment, he could have had a cover story ready in case it was discovered by outsiders.

 

[Dukhat]

Except Temporal Investigations hadn't been invented yet.

I realize you're just making a joke, but the truth is that no one knows when TI was founded.

Soran had that torpedo on the observatory. He made a deal with Lursa and B'etor about giving them trilithium. He set up an entire base on Veridian III with another torpedo ready to fire into the Veridian sun.

Well, Lursa and B'Etor would obviously have been of no help in the investigation, since they (being known Romulan collaborators) would of course lie when it suited them. As for Soran and his equipment, he could have had a cover story ready in case it was discovered by outsiders.

But does any of that really matter? This is the 24th century, not the 21st. They could have any number of ways to find out Soran's intent which is out of the realm of our present ways to uncover intent. Hell, just have a Vulcan give him a mind-meld or have a Betazoid read his mind.

 

[JarodRussell]

Absolutely he could. Which only proves my point about how absurd the entire concept of the Nexus was in this film.

Just because it's possible doesn't mean the character has to do it. They could also slingshot around the sun any time to prevent stuff. They don't do it. Because they accept that things have a natural development.

Generations entire theme was built around that. Soran said time was his enemy, that it was the fire in which they burn, Picard realized for himself that time was his companion and that you have to learn to let go.

 

[Dukhat]

Just because it's possible doesn't mean the character has to do it. They could also slingshot around the sun any time to prevent stuff. They don't do it. Because they accept that things have a natural development.

Generations entire theme was built around that. Soran said time was his enemy, that it was the fire in which they burn, Picard realized for himself that time was his companion and that you have to learn to let go.

Yes, I get what the theme of the movie was about. And if it really had been just about Picard trying to deal with the grief of his family's death, then it would have been fine. Just like in "Family" where he had to deal with the repercussions of being Locutus and bearing his soul to his brother about all the people he killed while under the Borg's influence.

The problem lies in being given an opportunity to fix that horrible mistake by going back to any point in time, and Picard not taking it, but instead choosing some random time that makes no sense and has nothing to do with saving his family.

Whenever you give someone complete mastery over time travel, and then make them choose a point in time to travel back to that isn't logical, then everything falls flat.

 

[Captain Mike]

What I hated about Generations is how Picard could have transported back to before his brother / nephew die. He could have saved them and arrested Soran on the spot. I guess that's what happens when you rush a film out right after the series ends. Cobra

I get what the theme of the movie was about. And if it really had been just about Picard trying to deal with the grief of his family's death, then it would have been fine. Just like in "Family" where he had to deal with the repercussions of being Locutus and bearing his soul to his brother about all the people he killed while under the Borg's influence.

The problem lies in being given an opportunity to fix that horrible mistake by going back to any point in time, and Picard not taking it, but instead choosing some random time that makes no sense and has nothing to do with saving his family.

Whenever you give someone complete mastery over time travel, and then make them choose a point in time to travel back to that isn't logical, then everything falls flat.

But that would be TOTALLY out of character for Picard to act in such a manner given that time. Q showed him in the episode Tapestry that if one could change just one moment in his/her past, some of the consequences of that said action could cause.
It was also about how in the 24th century how the compulsions that most of us have nowadays have evolved to what it is then.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

What I hated about Generations is how Picard could have transported back to before his brother / nephew die. He could have saved them and arrested Soran on the spot. I guess that's what happens when you rush a film out right after the series ends. Cobra

Wouldn't have fit within the movie's theme of "acceptance". Data had to accept emotions, Picard had to accept the death of his relatives. Soran didn't accept the death of his wife and wanted to kill millions to return to the Nexus.

And how would Picard have arrested someone for a crime he didn't commit yet anyway?

Um if Picard timed it right he would have had a Romulan Commander on hand to point out that Soran's trilitium came from a destroyed Romulan outpost added to the fact that he has a probe loaded with the stuff aimed at a star and trilitium is capable of destroying stars would probably be enough to book Soran and he would get the Federation some political brownie points with the Romulans to boot.

 

[CobraCommander]

Wouldn't have fit within the movie's theme of "acceptance". Data had to accept emotions, Picard had to accept the death of his relatives. Soran didn't accept the death of his wife and wanted to kill millions to return to the Nexus.

And how would Picard have arrested someone for a crime he didn't commit yet anyway?

The movie's theme was pretty weak. Why would Picard (with the power to change history) chose to let his ship be trashed, let his family remain dead, and make it harder on himself to stop Soran. In regards to "acceptance", why couldn't Picard accept that millions of people (including his crew) were dead? Changing their history would violate the temperal directive. If he could justify just going back a few minutes, why not go back a week and end everything before it happened?

Soran would have been found guilty of attempted mass-murder. At the very minimum he would have been institutionalized. His launcher on Veridian III had to have been there for some time. That torpedo on the observatory had one purpose alone (it wasn't scientific research). His computer files would have been equally incriminating. Lastly, why couldn't Deanna feel his thoughts?

Overall, I felt that this movie should not have come out the way it did and so soon after the series ended. It's plot was thin and its production quality was not worthy of a film. If the PTB wanted the Ent-D destroyed, they should have blown it up early on against the Borg in FC. It would have been more dignified than being blown up by a 20 year old bird of prey. Cobra

 

[Captain Mike]

Wouldn't have fit within the movie's theme of "acceptance". Data had to accept emotions, Picard had to accept the death of his relatives. Soran didn't accept the death of his wife and wanted to kill millions to return to the Nexus.

And how would Picard have arrested someone for a crime he didn't commit yet anyway?

The movie's theme was pretty weak. Why would Picard (with the power to change history) chose to let his ship be trashed, let his family remain dead, and make it harder on himself to stop Soran. In regards to "acceptance", why couldn't Picard accept that millions of people (including his crew) were dead? Changing their history would violate the temperal directive. If he could justify just going back a few minutes, why not go back a week and end everything before it happened?

Soran would have been found guilty of attempted mass-murder. At the very minimum he would have been institutionalized. His launcher on Veridian III had to have been there for some time. That torpedo on the observatory had one purpose alone (it wasn't scientific research). His computer files would have been equally incriminating. Lastly, why couldn't Deanna feel his thoughts?

Overall, I felt that this movie should not have come out the way it did and so soon after the series ended. It's plot was thin and its production quality was not worthy of a film. If the PTB wanted the Ent-D destroyed, they should have blown it up early on against the Borg in FC. It would have been more dignified than being blown up by a 20 year old bird of prey. Cobra

I just LOVE posters that are SSOOO stuck on their opinions that they refuse to see what has already been posted.