Because Kirk's dog had still been alive at the point he was reliving.
Picard's grief in Generations
- Thread starter JarodRussell
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Exactly. I am mystified as to how some people here are not grasping that the Nexus can take the people inside of it to anywhere & anytime. The Nexus didn't automatically take Kirk to point 9 years prior & literally recreate his life, it took him to his fantasy of a perfect life. Who's to say that perfect life couldn't have been living in the 1950s or 60s with a still-alive Edith Keeler? Or in the late 23rd Century with Carol Marcus (although I think Bibi Besch had passed away by 1994)? Or anywhere else in space and time?
...Or do some people here think that Picard actually had a Dickensian Christmas with his wife & many children (one of whom was his nephew in reality) at some point in his life?
Still don't see how that should make any sense. The girl on that hill was supposed to be the girl he wanted to marry before he decided to return to Starfleet (whenever that was supposed to be). He met her on that particular day and was simply reliving that memory inside the Nexus. Calling the girl Edith Keeler would have made no sense?
You're thinking too literally. Antonia, whoever she was, was on Kirk's mind for whatever reason, probably because he was thinking about the last time he attempted retirement, nine years before. If Kirk was thinking about Edith, the Nexus probably would have taken him to somewhere else where he could have had a life with her. Or somewhere else where he could be with Carol. Or somewhere else where he could be with Mirimanee.
But I doubt it would have been beyond the Nexus' abilities to put a dream-vision of Edith Keeler into the 23rd Century. That whole place seemed to operate on dream-logic, anyway.
And here's where the movie falls flat (see next entry).
Kirk pretty much states to Picard that his "perfect life" was when he was on the bridge of his ship, because that's where he made a difference. Not with Edith Keeler, not with Carol Marcus, not with this Antonia person. The Enterprise. That fact was beaten into our heads all throughout the film. That ship is the only "woman" in his life.
So if the Nexus can take you anywhere at any time and give you the fantasy of a perfect life, what the hell is Kirk doing chopping wood? Shouldn't he be on the bridge of the TOS Enterprise, battling Klingons or saving scantily-clad female aliens, with good ol' Bones and Spock by his side?
Just because it's a "perfect" life doesn't automatically mean it's a "happy" one. I think it's been shown several times that even though Kirk loved being captain of the enterprise, and couldn't see he life any different, he wasn't always happy. He was missing something in his life, and the Nexus gave it to him.
Really? Because he certainly didn't seem happy to me. He pretty much swayed between being bewildered about his situation to realizing that it was all fake.
I don't know what was going through Kirk's head. All I know is what I saw, and I saw someone who's true happiness (being in command of a starship) was not being portrayed by the maguffin which supposedly gives you whatever you want.
Although one could possibly say that Kirk's essentially breaking up with this Antonia person to go back to Starfleet was actually the beginning of his fantasy of returning to starship command.
Although one could possibly say that Kirk's essentially breaking up with this Antonia person to go back to Starfleet was actually the beginning of his fantasy of returning to starship command.
Honestly, I think it was simply that as happy as he was being captain, he still regretted never making time for a family. When he met Demora Sulu he seemed surprised that Sulu had a daughter, as well as saddened that he didn't have his own child. At least not one alive anymore. So even with being satisfied with command, I don't think he was truly happy with the way everything in his life turned out.
Actually, I think that's what we were supposed to insinuate from Picard's fantasy, not Kirk's. And I respect your opinion, but I really didn't see Kirk saddened by the fact that he had no children when he met Demora. But that's just me.
To each their own of course. It would be boring if we all agreed. But as it is, I think it applies to both for different reasons. I used family in kirks case cause thats what it portrayed to me in the nexus. A better explanation would probably be life in general. Kirk focused on his career, and as a result everything else took a back seat. So the nexus gave him a situation where he could bring one of those things to the foreground.
Picard, seeing himself as the last of his family, also having put his whole life into a career was given the family he never had.
Oh, and on an unrelated note someone mentioned he had christmas dinner with his wife and kids, including Renee. Not sure if I read that wrong, but it sounded like they said renee was one of his kids. As I recall, he called Picard uncle, so he was just still alive. But, if I simply read it differently then what you intended, I apologize.
Picard, seeing himself as the last of his family, also having put his whole life into a career was given the family he never had.
Oh, and on an unrelated note someone mentioned he had christmas dinner with his wife and kids, including Renee. Not sure if I read that wrong, but it sounded like they said renee was one of his kids. As I recall, he called Picard uncle, so he was just still alive. But, if I simply read it differently then what you intended, I apologize.
I think most of you get wrong what happened in the Nexus.
Kirk was only reliving a memory. He had to make a decision between the girl and Starfleet and chose Starfleet, and silently he regreted that. The Nexus and his subconscious returned him to that day. And when he went through the door, ready to tell her to stay with her, his subconscious sent him to an entirely different day in his life, the day he met the girl.
He was not living in a perfect dream world or in his personal happy place.
Picard on the other hand was. He was seeing his own dream family. The funny thing is that his own dream world was so over the top that even Picard became suspicious.
Kirk was only reliving a memory. He had to make a decision between the girl and Starfleet and chose Starfleet, and silently he regreted that. The Nexus and his subconscious returned him to that day. And when he went through the door, ready to tell her to stay with her, his subconscious sent him to an entirely different day in his life, the day he met the girl.
He was not living in a perfect dream world or in his personal happy place.
Picard on the other hand was. He was seeing his own dream family. The funny thing is that his own dream world was so over the top that even Picard became suspicious.
What I hated about Generations is how Picard could have transported back to before his brother / nephew die. He could have saved them and arrested Soran on the spot. I guess that's what happens when you rush a film out right after the series ends. Cobra
Wouldn't have fit within the movie's theme of "acceptance". Data had to accept emotions, Picard had to accept the death of his relatives. Soran didn't accept the death of his wife and wanted to kill millions to return to the Nexus.
And how would Picard have arrested someone for a crime he didn't commit yet anyway?
Kirk wasn't just reliving his memories, he was actively changing them. He made the decision to stay with Antonia rather than go back to Starfleet. His dog Butler was alive when he shouldn't have been. He got the chance to go back to his first meeting with Antonia and do it right from the beginning. It was a fantasy life based on his idealized memories.
And it fits in perfectly with where the Enterprise-B prologue and the deleted scenes show us where Kirk's head is at. He's finding retirement unfulfilling. He probably doesn't have anyone to come home to. He's taking up risky hobbies like orbital skydiving to fill his time and give some purpose to his life. He goes to the dedication with Scotty and Chekov and finds that time has even passed him by on the bridge of the Enterprise (It's also rather telling that his two closest friends, Spock and McCoy, aren't there, adding to Kirk's isolation). He meets Sulu's daughter Demora for the first time in 12(?) years and wonders how Sulu was able to balance family with a life in Starfleet when he was never able to with Carol & David. And he starts thinking back to maybe the last time in his life that a chance at a fulfilling romantic & family life presented itself... with Antonia. I'd bet if Kirk's Nexus fantasy went on for long enough, we would've seen Kirk back on the Enterprise, with Antonia and family in tow.
Boy, I've just spent a LOT of time defending and analyzing a movie I don't like very much.
Bullshit. You mean to tell me that if your whole family just died a meaningless and horrible death in th worst way imaginable (burned to death), and then the same day you find a way to travel back in time, you wouldn't try to save them? You'd just "accept" it even though you were given an opportunity to change it? Please.
Soran obviously wasn't thinking rationally.
It's called intent. The same way the Time Starfleet from the 29th century could arrest Braxton for something he hadn't done yet: They already saw a future timeline where he did commit the crime and realized what he was planning. And really, all Picard would have to do to prove Soran's intent was to visit the Amargosa observatory and find the torpedo he was going to shoot into the star.
^ Could Picard have proven what Soran was intending to do with that torpedo, even if he found it?
29th century Starfleet gets a free pass, since for Ducane to arrest Braxton for crimes that had not yet been committed suggests (to me, anyway) that they have developed a whole new system of law that allows for this sort of thing to happen. A system that would likely be incomprehensible to any of us. But Picard doesn't have that luxury with Soran. Even if Picard confiscated the torpedo and presented it to Starfleet, we don't know that it would be automatic evidence of Soran's guilt or even intent.
29th century Starfleet gets a free pass, since for Ducane to arrest Braxton for crimes that had not yet been committed suggests (to me, anyway) that they have developed a whole new system of law that allows for this sort of thing to happen. A system that would likely be incomprehensible to any of us. But Picard doesn't have that luxury with Soran. Even if Picard confiscated the torpedo and presented it to Starfleet, we don't know that it would be automatic evidence of Soran's guilt or even intent.
