Picard's atheism?
- Thread starter killax
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Lord Garth
Guest
There's no indication for most of the human characters that they're religious. McCoy is religious IMO. Scotty, might be. Sisko, I'm not sure, though his father quoted from the Bible in an episode.
I think the only human regulars who are definitely religious are McCoy and Chakotay.
I think the only human regulars who are definitely religious are McCoy and Chakotay.
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Lord Garth
Guest
He's a religious figure to the Bajorans, that doesn't necessarily mean he's religious himself. Did he ever change his view the Prophets from them being aliens to being Gods? They're not necessarily the same thing even if they did engineer his birth. They set up the circumstances for him to be born since they could see time in all directions instead of just one point. They have nonlinear perspective but that doesn't mean they're supreme.
Disclaimer (just in case): This is more academic to me than anything else, it's not a big deal to me one way or the other.
Disclaimer (just in case): This is more academic to me than anything else, it's not a big deal to me one way or the other.
Funny how people see such different things in these characters. I always saw McCoy as a card carrying atheist.
I see most of the human Trek characters as probably being agnostic.
I see most of the human Trek characters as probably being agnostic.
L
Lord Garth
Guest
I don't believe in a Supreme Being but I'd still say "Oh my God!" and the like as a figure of speech. But I can't imagine an agnostic or atheist ever saying "Sweet Jesus!" like McCoy did in TUC.
^ Well this is purely anecdotal, but I go back and forth between being an atheist and agnostic and I say stuff like that all of the time 
I see your point though.
I see your point though.
I've always had the impression that McCoy is a humanist in his personal approach to things and Christian culturally, hence the Christian-oriented epithets. The degree to which he has an actual faith versus simply being steeped in a religious atmosphere is up in the air, since we're never shown anything explicit.
While it's understandable that people may view Picard as an atheist, I think at best that he is agnostic. Consider what he says to the faux Data in "Where Silence Has Lease":
"Considering the marvelous complexity of our universe, its clockwork perfection, its balances of this against that... matter, energy, gravitation, time, dimension, pattern, I believe our existence must mean more than a meaningless illusion. I prefer to believe that my and your existence goes beyond Euclidian and other "practical" measuring systems... and that, in ways we cannot yet fathom, our existence is part of a reality beyond what we understand now as reality."
"Considering the marvelous complexity of our universe, its clockwork perfection, its balances of this against that... matter, energy, gravitation, time, dimension, pattern, I believe our existence must mean more than a meaningless illusion. I prefer to believe that my and your existence goes beyond Euclidian and other "practical" measuring systems... and that, in ways we cannot yet fathom, our existence is part of a reality beyond what we understand now as reality."
Kirk (Who Mourns for Adonais): "Mankind has no need for gods. We find the one quite adequate."
^ Well this is purely anecdotal, but I go back and forth between being an atheist and agnostic and I say stuff like that all of the time
I see your point though.
Yeah, another atheist here, and I say things like "Oh my God!" and "Sweet Jesus!" and "Jesus H. F**king Christ!" all the time...
Though lately, as a geek (past few years) I started mixing it up a bit with "Oh my Gods!!!" (BSG reference) and "I swear to your God!" and "My hand to your God!" (both I learned from Bender on Futurama) and "For Lethe's sake!" (Stephen Baxter Xeelee Sequence ref) and "For Buddha's sake!" (I learned that from a friend, who like me, is an atheist and a Buddhist...) plus the occassional Flying Spaghetti Monster rep...
And insted of crossing myself when I am scared or whatever, I whisper "Fear is the mindkiller. I will face my fear..." which sounds corny, but it's an excelent calming mantra...(I have an anxiety disorder, so I use this a lot.)
*
- bryce
(please excuse all the "*'s" if there any too many, I am having browser problems, should be cleared up soon and then I'll edit them out...thanks!)
I've been doing that too, but the odd thing is that I hadn't even noticed they were adding an s on the show until somebody else pointed it out to me. It was a completely unconscious thing that I too was adding an s when I was taking that god fellow's name in vain. I therefore believe that this sort of thing is completely subliminal and we say things like "Oh god!" or "Jesus Christ!" not because we believe in them, but because of societal conditioning. Since McCoy comes from the Southern US, it makes perfect sense that he would say "Sweet Jesus" without actually believing in Jesus himself.
Worf and the Klingons don't view Kahless as a "deity", more as a moral compass who embodies all things Klingon. The Klingons believe that they killed their gods because "they were more trouble than they were worth".
As for Tuvok and the Vulcans. In a particular episode of Voyager, there is mention made of a defunct celebration (Rumaree i think) which dates back before Surak when Vulcans were emotional pagans. It would seem to imply that after the Awakening the Vulcans became agnostic at best.
Kahless is more like the Klingon Buddha, or Lao-Tzu...
- bryce
(please excuse all the "*'s", I am having browser problems, it should be cleared up soon and then I'll go back and edit them out...thanks!)
Wasn't there a discussion Picard had once with Q, where Q claimed to be God, and Picard said he refuses to belief that because the universe was not so badly created... where was that? I couldn't find the quote... maybe I'm insane.
Then again,
Q: "Let us pray for understanding and for compassion."
Picard: "Let us do no such damn thing."
-- "Hide And Q
It seems like religious beliefs exist in ST like they do now- people are "spiritual" and its tolerated as a freedom, but it for the most part seems very private. Exceptions of course exist, like the Bajorans, and the Vorta etc.
Then again,
Q: "Let us pray for understanding and for compassion."
Picard: "Let us do no such damn thing."
-- "Hide And Q
It seems like religious beliefs exist in ST like they do now- people are "spiritual" and its tolerated as a freedom, but it for the most part seems very private. Exceptions of course exist, like the Bajorans, and the Vorta etc.
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