Inconceivable!
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Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.
Uh, i mean it LITERALLY does
I mean, I could be wrong, and maybe Pike, Number One, Spock, Uhura, Kirk, Nurse Chapel, Sam Kirk and Doctor M'Benga from SNW weren't in TOS which was Trek touched by the hands of the Great Bird himself.
It 'literally' does not.
TNG was the most involved Roddenberry had been in Trek since 1978. He 'literally' wrote the series bible for TNG. He 'literally' hired Rick Berman. He 'literally' approved all the actors that were hired for the TNG cast. And after his death Berman continued to largely govern Trek the same, continuing through three more series and four motion pictures. And When Enterprise ended in 2005 the very last of any Star Trek that was "touched by Roddenberry's hand" ended with it.
Which is completely irrelevant to what I said. Roddenberry never wrote a single word of dialog for any series after TNG. Yet DS9, VOY, and ENT are far more closely related to him than SNW can ever hope to be. A few characters loosely based on a 58 year old script hardly qualifies.
WTF, we're doing apostolic succession for Star Trek now? And I thought the canon arguments were getting silly.
Call me when we get temple prostitutes and liturgical dancers folks. just gimme that ole time religion..
Gene would have rolled over in his grave with some of the stuff in DS9 and ENT.
TNG *is* the last. No two ways. What we think of as ‘Berman’ Trek, is actually the last of ‘Gene’ Trek, insofar as it all grows from TNG directly, with overlap of cast and crew (in series terms, DS9 was the last time characters Gene was directly involved with were series regulars, but Enterprise ended with Frakes and Sirtis though they weren’t series regulars of course) and in that sense *this* very much is the end of Treks ‘primary source’ era that started in 66, then restarted in 79 and settled in 87.
You could even argue the Movies and TNG already represented something akin to the East and West Roman Empire.
SNW is based on it, but has no direct lineage — it is what might be called Renaissance Trek (and in those terms is more deserving of that title than Kelvinverse or DSC) in that it takes more inspiration from that sixties/seventies era.
Frakes and Sirtis particularly represent this, as it is on the record how their characters and actors in particular were very directly ‘Genes’ and arguably as Wesley was named for him, him also — once we no longer get shows with these guys, then everything is a new thing.
This is all essentially true, and *not* a judgement on ‘quality’ and once you consider the involvement of people from the nineties era in front or behind the camera, then we have a different lineage and torch being passed — in some ways it is perfectly sensible to consider The Orville a result of this in particular, but also things like Elementary, or For All Mankind and The Expanse. Even NCIS.
But, if this is the *last* we see of the TNG crew, then yes, something ends here. Let’s hope it ends well.
You could even argue the Movies and TNG already represented something akin to the East and West Roman Empire.
SNW is based on it, but has no direct lineage — it is what might be called Renaissance Trek (and in those terms is more deserving of that title than Kelvinverse or DSC) in that it takes more inspiration from that sixties/seventies era.
Frakes and Sirtis particularly represent this, as it is on the record how their characters and actors in particular were very directly ‘Genes’ and arguably as Wesley was named for him, him also — once we no longer get shows with these guys, then everything is a new thing.
This is all essentially true, and *not* a judgement on ‘quality’ and once you consider the involvement of people from the nineties era in front or behind the camera, then we have a different lineage and torch being passed — in some ways it is perfectly sensible to consider The Orville a result of this in particular, but also things like Elementary, or For All Mankind and The Expanse. Even NCIS.
But, if this is the *last* we see of the TNG crew, then yes, something ends here. Let’s hope it ends well.
I find something really ironic in holding up the one series as the true manifestation of Gene's will that not only had him sidelined and forced out of its production before his death but also made direct steps to refute key parts of his messaging (see "no mourning death in the future" etc) throughout its run.
And of course, there's still the uncomfortable issue of just how much of Gene's input was actually his word and not just whatever Leonard Maizlish said he wanted.
Yeah, it all reminds me very much of actual religious history.
And of course, there's still the uncomfortable issue of just how much of Gene's input was actually his word and not just whatever Leonard Maizlish said he wanted.
Yeah, it all reminds me very much of actual religious history.
He was off of TOS pretty quickly too.
Basically, if you go down that path, only TMP is True Gene Trek (TM) xD.
everyone gets a voice in fandom but the crazies shout the loudest, leading to bizarre stuff like this latest fan theology an the Cult of Matalas.
No, it ended when he died during TNG's run.
Gene Roddenberry is the Bob Kane of Star Trek. Especially from 1987 to 1991.
David Gerrold wrote the TNG Series Bible, and -- when watching first season episodes -- you really have to know Gene Roddenberry's writing style to be able to tell where Gene Roddenberry ends and Leonard Miazlish begins. The worse the writing, and the clunkier it sounds, the more likely it's Miazlish. Since he wasn't a creative type. The more philosophical it sounds, or the more TOS-like it sounds, it's probably Roddenberry.
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Sad to say DC Fontana and David Gerrold really deserved co-creator credit on TNG. It's really interesting to consider the road not taken had Miazlish not cleared out all the legacy TOS people, leaving the door open for Rick Berman and Maurice Hurley to take over.
I really need to watch the deleted scenes from Shatner's Chaos on the Bridge. I forgot to cancel my placeholder order for the limited edition Blu-ray set of his documentaries, and I haven't made good yet on my $60 investment in it
Phase One: Roddenberry Assemble (1966-1969)
Phase Two: heh that's the name of a botched show idea (1970-1978)
Phase Three: Siskel, Ebert, and Roddenberry at the Movies (1979-1986)
Phase Four: Lights (1987-1991)
Phase Five: Gene's Ghost Still Secretly Has Creative Control (1992-2001)
Phase Six: #NotMyEnterprise (2002-2005)
Phase Seven: Roddenberry's Vision Survives Through Fan Films!!!! (2006-2008)
Phase Eight: Paid Paramount Plant (2009-2016)
Phase Nine: STD hahahahahahah do you get it? S T D (2017-2021)
Phase Ten: Serveaux Compliments The Franchise (2022)
Phase Eleven: Gene's Last Fingertip Slides Wayward of His Dream As TerryTrek Begins and Ends (2023)
Sorry, there's just a lot to keep track of.
Phase Two: heh that's the name of a botched show idea (1970-1978)
Phase Three: Siskel, Ebert, and Roddenberry at the Movies (1979-1986)
Phase Four: Lights (1987-1991)
Phase Five: Gene's Ghost Still Secretly Has Creative Control (1992-2001)
Phase Six: #NotMyEnterprise (2002-2005)
Phase Seven: Roddenberry's Vision Survives Through Fan Films!!!! (2006-2008)
Phase Eight: Paid Paramount Plant (2009-2016)
Phase Nine: STD hahahahahahah do you get it? S T D (2017-2021)
Phase Ten: Serveaux Compliments The Franchise (2022)
Phase Eleven: Gene's Last Fingertip Slides Wayward of His Dream As TerryTrek Begins and Ends (2023)
Sorry, there's just a lot to keep track of.
Imagine all the behind the scenes books about the current era when NDAs begin to expire...
Hopefully Mark Altman is collecting receipts as we speak...
I understand your argument here, but everyone keeps making it about the cast. It has nothing to do with the cast.
From 1993 to 2005 almost every element of Trek we saw on screen had at least some tie back to Gene and the universe of the 24th century established for TNG.
That’s… pretty much what the post says.
If you’re not counting cast, then nothing after DS9 (which apparently Roddenberry saw early planning for) does.
VOY thru ENT is Berman, as is GEN thru NEM. TWOK thru FF is Bennet, and TUC is Meyer/Nimoy.
The closest to pure ‘Rodenberry’ is TMP and and TMP alone, because even TOS sits with Fontana, Solow, Freiberger, Justman, etc etc. Dorothy Fontana even wrote most of Encounter At Farpoint, with the last character Roddenberry personally had a hand in creating being in all likelihood Q. (Though I prefer to think it was O’Brien, because that’s just funny and kind of accurate - there’s a reason that last famous shot of the Great Bird was on a transporter pad… )
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