Spoilers Picard Movie & TV collection Blu Ray: A Rant

[Lance]

I'm just venting. Yes, I know it doesn't really matter, yes I know the set is just an excuse to do a cheap repackage of existing discs again. But I really can't help fell the lost potential.

The aim of this set should have been to be a kind of primer for Picard. Include any episodes and movies that are strictly relevant to Picard. So, Best of Both Worlds and First Contact (the movie) are givens, but maybe throw Family in there as well. I feel like maybe Chain of Command too. Sarek and Unification as a bundle. I, Borg and the Descent two-parter (maybe edited into movie format) for the presence of Hugh. Nemesis for Data's death.

I don't know. Maybe I'm pissing in the wind. But it just feels like, there was more potential for this collection than to just be a Trekkie stocking filler for Christmas.

Am I wrong?

 

[Green]

Cheap repackage. that is it. No real work or thought going into it.

 

[BillJ]

The aim of this set should have been to be a kind of primer for Picard. Include any episodes and movies that are strictly relevant to Picard. So, Best of Both Worlds and First Contact (the movie) are givens, but maybe throw Family in there as well. I feel like maybe Chain of Command too. Sarek and Unification as a bundle. I, Borg and the Descent two-parter (maybe edited into movie format) for the presence of Hugh. Nemesis for Data's death.

I doubt the people in charge of this had any idea what the new show is going to be about.

 

[DS9forever]

I was hoping they were going to remaster Emissary for this.

 

[Green]

I fervently hope to see DS9 remastered in HD but the odds of them doing it for this set were about zero.

 

[Lance]

I just remember back to the good ol' days, when there'd be collections like the Fan Collective dvd sets, or even not that long ago with the likes of the Origins boxed set, where they'd make an effort to pick and choose episodes with great thought and compile them together. Just throwing together the already existing TNG movie discs we've been served up repeatedly for 10 years now, alongside the already existing discs for BOBW and Chain of Command... it feels like a hack job. The only justification I can think of for it is that it demonstrates fully that Paramount and CBS have officially re-merged together.

Hell, I'd almost prefer a set just containing all the current 'movie-length' edits (BOBW, Redemption, Unification, Chain of Command and All Good Things), along with movie edits of any other two-parters, (Descent, Gambit, Birthright, Time's Arrow, and Encounter at Farpoint for completist sake). Now that would be a TV Movie collection worth buying.

 

[Qonundrum]

I'm just venting. Yes, I know it doesn't really matter, yes I know the set is just an excuse to do a cheap repackage of existing discs again. But I really can't help fell the lost potential.

The aim of this set should have been to be a kind of primer for Picard. Include any episodes and movies that are strictly relevant to Picard. So, Best of Both Worlds and First Contact (the movie) are givens, but maybe throw Family in there as well. I feel like maybe Chain of Command too. Sarek and Unification as a bundle. I, Borg and the Descent two-parter (maybe edited into movie format) for the presence of Hugh. Nemesis for Data's death.

I don't know. Maybe I'm pissing in the wind. But it just feels like, there was more potential for this collection than to just be a Trekkie stocking filler for Christmas.

Am I wrong?

Either the makers were selling this as a buildup to the sequel and opted to not include certain episodes due to space constraints, or because those episodes might upend their forward vision too much*, or because they're just chucking any old thing together as a sales opportunity due to name recognition only - of which the scripted episodes would follow the same level of quality. Which I doubt is the case but is a technical possibility. Either way, this set is for the more casual fans who might want a few episodes on permanent media but wouldn't want the entire series on their bookshelf... the extras alone might pull enough weight for established fans too.

* continuity needn't be 100% ironclad if the new material works** but Family, Sarek, and Chain of Command are sufficiently big Picard stories that they would be relevant to adhere to with continuity. I Borg and Descent could be overlooked; the fact ST FC the movie overlooked "Descent" already proves it's okay to ignore continuity to tell a better one if it's really done well. And now I understand the other POV that much better, as to why they would ignore Descent and throne a Queen and the rest...

** e.g. Voyager and the Borg kept me hooked despite it all, until season 6 or 7

 

[JesterFace]

ST FC the movie overlooked "Descent" already proves it's okay to ignore continuity to tell a better one if it's really done well.

By this you mean the Borg becoming individual in TNG and suddenly it's collective again in the movies?

 

[Lance]

^ It seems to me that Picard is going to find a way to reconcile those two views of the Borg.

 

[Qonundrum]

By this you mean the Borg becoming individual in TNG and suddenly it's collective again in the movies?

Yup. An idea dawned on me thanks to Lance, so I'll post that below at the end... but the TV show/movie never addressed the issue of the Borg being a single species becoming a gestalt of numerous species, which becomes harder to remember when rewatching I Borg (which by then was already after showing a human being assimilated so TNG at the time yet the 1701-D crew don't address that possibility, because the Borg are either a race or an amalgamation of races thanks to high technology but that alone does not create a new race as such, since the definition is based on genetic properties - unless the 24th century redefines the word by incorporating technological grafting into cellular structures, which then creates a whole new level of convolution... then again, that may not be as much of an issue since Dr Crusher was one frustrated over how the Borg implants were changing Picard's DNA, but whatever the microcircuit fibers were doing, it - for Picard or Seven or Hugh and Lew and Dew too, why not - was clearly temporary and the DNA rewrote itself back after the fibers were removed... and they can be recycled too, have you seen my new scarf and hanky knitted from fresh Borg microfiber? Those are nothing to sneeze at... )

^ It seems to me that Picard is going to find a way to reconcile those two views of the Borg.

Or the Collective figured out what was happening way out there in sector 008 and shunted them off the Collective? (Usually they just destruct rogue or damaged units, but the type of damage done was so chaotic... and then Lore found them, which was a stroke of brilliance. "Descent" could have been great but it didn't - or couldn't - create a new epic feel since there's no way TBOBW could be topped.)

 

[JesterFace]

About Hugh, individuality and the collective.
Hugh did say in the end of Descent 2 that "We can't go back to the Borg Collective".
I wonder what he meant by that.
They can't go back because there's still a hive mind in the delta quadrant? They don't have a ship to take them there?

I like to think 'I Borg' as the final time there even is such a thing as the Borg collective.
Picard had been a Borg, he knew what he was talking about when he described what would happen if Hugh and his individuality would go back. Every single Borg would become individual. That fits nicely with the trial of humanity that was going on during TNG. Picard releases every single Borg even after what they did to him. A piece of my own headcanon.

 

[Kor]

I never got the sense from "Descent" that the entire Borg collective was affected by the individuality bug. The fact that Hugh refers to the Collective means that it still exists, and that his entourage is a breakaway faction.

Kor

 

[lazarus+]

This topic is making me ache for some good dialogue between Seven and Jean Luc. I'd speculated with friends for years about what they'd discuss.

I hope it will be at least somewhat up to my hopes, whatever form it will take.

 

[Lance]

This topic is making me ache for some good dialogue between Seven and Jean Luc. I'd speculated with friends for years about what they'd discuss.

I hope it will be at least somewhat up to my hopes, whatever form it will take.

I think seeing them swap notes is going to be fascinating.

On some level, they'd have a unique connection. Maybe even post-assimilation and recovery. Seven was already a Borg when Picard became Locutus. If there really is no such thing as individuality in the collective, then they shared the hive mind at the same time, even if they were on opposite ends of the galactic map to the other at the time. When he met Picard, Hugh knew who Locutus was. I imagine Seven would too.

 

[lazarus+]

I think seeing them swap notes is going to be fascinating.

On some level, they'd have a unique connection. Maybe even post-assimilation and recovery. Seven was already a Borg when Picard became Locutus. If there really is no such thing as individuality in the collective, then they shared the hive mind at the same time, even if they were on opposite ends of the galactic map to the other at the time. When he met Picard, Hugh knew who Locutus was. I imagine Seven would too.

That Hugh thing took me by surprise, being in the new show. Looking forward to seeing what they've got for us. I think it is an exciting time to be a Star Trek fan. I wonder if she will first address Hugh as Third of Five. I had to look up what it was...

 

[Noname Given]

I never got the sense from "Descent" that the entire Borg collective was affected by the individuality bug. The fact that Hugh refers to the Collective means that it still exists, and that his entourage is a breakaway faction.

Kor

^^^
This. The Borg Collective ALWAYS understood and dealt with suppressing individuality of an organism. If they didn't; there is NO WAY they could assimilate individuals into their ranks. Also, The Borg isn't one BIG Hive Mind as were that the case; one cube blowing up would have disastrous effects. They'd have to have Cubes act alone, or in smaller groups, or again, there would be issues in scouting areas distant from the 'Home Collective' as they expanded out through the Galaxy.

So yeah, (IMO) the whole idea that Picard getting Hugh to 'reassert' his individuality as a way to infect/harm the Borg collective was ridiculous and really should have had no effect at all because again, if the Borg couldn't deal with 'individuality' they should be able tom assimilate new beings into the Collective; and they shouldn't be able to go very far from the seat of the "Home Collective".

 

[JesterFace]

So yeah, (IMO) the whole idea that Picard getting Hugh to 'reassert' his individuality as a way to infect/harm the Borg collective was ridiculous and really should have had no effect at all because again, if the Borg couldn't deal with 'individuality' they should be able tom assimilate new beings into the Collective; and they shouldn't be able to go very far from the seat of the "Home Collective".

The difference with someone being assimilated and Hugh was that Hugh was already a member of the collective.
When someone is assimilated there must be some way to prevent their individuality from spreading into the collective. With Hugh there was no need for "individuality eraser" as he was already a Borg. That's when Picard's plan works. Hugh would be plugged back in and Picard's plan would work.

 

[Admiral Picard]

At least it contains a 16page comic. Did one of you read it and is it worth the while?

 

[Lance]

At least it contains a 16page comic. Did one of you read it and is it worth the while?

It's a cute little 'vingette' set sometime after the TV show and before the movies, but it isn't particularly relevant or anything. It's just a snack size TNG.

 

[Admiral Picard]

It's a cute little 'vingette' set sometime after the TV show and before the movies, but it isn't particularly relevant or anything. It's just a snack size TNG.

Okay, thanks. So I shouldnt mind it at all?