Spoilers Picard 1x1, "Remembrance"
- Thread starter The Old Mixer
- Start date
The thing about basic mission statements as vague as what Section 31 has is they are wide open to interpretation.
Well, I blame Enterprise for the cloaking fiasco.
I mean, a good theory is that ENT goes to KELVIN style to DSC. TOS was before stupid FC time travel shenanigans
I genuinely don't think the writers ignored it. I think they worked within all the Star Trek material thus far.
Lots of organizations that exist across hundreds of years have the same issues. The Pope once served as the head of an army that fought wars. How does that jive with what the job is today?
Yes. But if a weird man showed up in my room in the middle of the night and claimed to be from an organization I'd never heard of but that everyone knew about and casually conversed about a mere 120 years earlier, I'm pretty sure a few simple web searches would reveal a lot about it. And yet, Bashir and Sisko had quite the time even getting started. Maybe Wikipedia doesn't exist anymore in the 24th century?
It is up to TPTB to do whatever they want, though it was clear in DS9 and Enterprise that Section 31 was intended to be a shadow organization. But just because they can do what they want, doesn't mean it actually makes any sense.
And their changes to Section 31 really don't make a lick of sense. The only reason it remotely made sense in the Abrams films was because that future hadn't been written yet.
Do you see any evidence of wide open information access across any era of Star Trek like the internet offers us today? Exactly how many non-governmental news gathering and dispensing organizations are generally encountered in Star Trek on a regular basis? As far as i can tell over my 50 year experience with the show, the Federation keeps a tight lid on things.
But, we don't know how commonly known S31 is, since we are seeing Starfleet's most experimental ship regularly discussing experimental tech.
Well, I know that it happened and it was centuries ago! Just like the DS9 people would have known if S31 was the official Starfleet intelligence a century ago.
Believe it or not, I think they showed 3 episodes because overall, the running time for all 3 is about 2 hours <--- The length of your average film (IE - If their going to get all these stars/VIPs/Production crew/special fans out for a movie premiere; they're going to get a full length 'movie' to sit through
It's not illegible at all - although the audience is looking at it from 'behind' - but it's not hard to read at all.
Edited to add:
Okay, I did a screencap, cropped it, flipped it so it's standard left to right, and sharpened it so the section was readable. I'm wrong:
^^^
The section that I thought displayed the number relating to his current age was actually the start of his Starfleet Service number; plus it wasn't starting with a 92, it was a 93.
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But we are not the Federation. There are plenty of things that went on in the past that people in the TNG era have little knowledge about, especially where it comes to what goes on in Starfleet.
Are you kidding? Yes, in literally dozens of episodes, we see people accessing information of every stripe imaginable, including from seemingly extremely esoteric databases, like family genealogical records on obscure planets. Are you seriously suggesting that the reason Section 31 can be a household name in the 23rd century and be virtually unheard of in the 24th is because people don't have access to information even as much as we do in the 21st century? My comment about Wikipedia was a joke. You seem to be making it in earnest…
But we are not the Federation. There are plenty of things that went on in the past that people in the TNG era have little knowledge about, especially where it comes to what goes on in Starfleet. This is pretty much how every utopia that has been theorized operates
Are you kidding? Yes, in literally dozens of episodes, we see people accessing information of every stripe imaginable, including from seemingly extremely esoteric databases, like family genealogical records on obscure planets. Are you seriously suggesting that the reason Section 31 can be a household name in the 23rd century and be virtually unheard of in the 24th is because people don't have access to information even as much as we do in the 21st century? My comment about Wikipedia was a joke. You seem to be making it in earnest…
And lots of information that is suppressed as well. Many things that were a household name a hundred years ago are virtually unheard of today. And a Utopia is the very place where information can be disappeared if it's not considered appropriate for that utopia.
JFC, this is getting absolutely ridiculous. We have seen them easily finding most myriad of information on their databases countless times. Information on organisation that openly existed 120 years ago would of course be readily available, and people with some knowledge of history would instantly know it off top of their head. DSC doesn't make sense in this regard, this is blatantly obvious. Now please take your unhinged apologia to the Discovery section of the forums where it belongs.
Sigh. I bit down and decided to go ahead and buy ad-free CBS:AA (via Amazon Prime) so I could watch this. It's a little hard to resist, TNG cast, post-TNG era, Patrick Stewart...
And I came out of it with a.... B-. And like the very, very, very end of it where if one more little thing was "wrong" it would have been a C+.
One of the things that always appealed to me with Star Trek was just this positive future so far removed than our present where everyone works to be better and part of this, particularly the info-dump scenes, it just felt too much like well... "Now." The news interview just felt too much like our own news, the notion that the Federation/Starfleet would turn its backs on the billion displace Romulan lives it just doesn't feel "right." The stuff about the "synthetics" on Mars and what happened on Mars just feels a bit out of place for the kind of Trek I like to see and think about.
And the action/fighting bits just also felt a bit "out of place" for me, even though there's plenty of fights and action all over Trek the kind of stuff scene here felt too stylized/Hollywood-ized.
I liked little touches like the "look" and stuff of 25c Earth like the holographic newsfeed, with the pop up (and the "door chime" tone) when the news crew transports in, the archive room, but... I dunno.
I sit here feeling mixed. Parts of it feels good and like its heading and a direction that'll be fun but then I see the "This season on!" bit with a duel-phaser rifle wielding Seven, and our angsty, rough-rodden, crew on some clunker ship and I'm just.... Ehhhh.
Some of it doesn't feel completely right, hell to show me a shot of the E-D and not make me feel giddy is just a level a failure.
I'll see how it goes. I think some of the levels of hate I've seen out there a bit strong and unwarranted, but bits of it I sort of see where it is coming from. And why no mention of Lore? Wasn't he just as "sentient" as Data? Where is he at? Certainly in crate at Daystrom himself. And Data's "mother" wasn't she pretty much the very thing we see Picard talking about? A "synthetic" that could completely pass for a biological being? She wasn't discovered until part of her was damaged and she shut off and her internal components were revealed, she only gave a "tell" that Data could pick-up. I guess she wasn't exactly what they were talking about (a biological body with a synthetic brain?) but she seemed to be on that same arc.
And De-Caf Earl Grey? Come-on, Jean-Luc.
And I came out of it with a.... B-. And like the very, very, very end of it where if one more little thing was "wrong" it would have been a C+.
One of the things that always appealed to me with Star Trek was just this positive future so far removed than our present where everyone works to be better and part of this, particularly the info-dump scenes, it just felt too much like well... "Now." The news interview just felt too much like our own news, the notion that the Federation/Starfleet would turn its backs on the billion displace Romulan lives it just doesn't feel "right." The stuff about the "synthetics" on Mars and what happened on Mars just feels a bit out of place for the kind of Trek I like to see and think about.
And the action/fighting bits just also felt a bit "out of place" for me, even though there's plenty of fights and action all over Trek the kind of stuff scene here felt too stylized/Hollywood-ized.
I liked little touches like the "look" and stuff of 25c Earth like the holographic newsfeed, with the pop up (and the "door chime" tone) when the news crew transports in, the archive room, but... I dunno.
I sit here feeling mixed. Parts of it feels good and like its heading and a direction that'll be fun but then I see the "This season on!" bit with a duel-phaser rifle wielding Seven, and our angsty, rough-rodden, crew on some clunker ship and I'm just.... Ehhhh.
Some of it doesn't feel completely right, hell to show me a shot of the E-D and not make me feel giddy is just a level a failure.
I'll see how it goes. I think some of the levels of hate I've seen out there a bit strong and unwarranted, but bits of it I sort of see where it is coming from. And why no mention of Lore? Wasn't he just as "sentient" as Data? Where is he at? Certainly in crate at Daystrom himself. And Data's "mother" wasn't she pretty much the very thing we see Picard talking about? A "synthetic" that could completely pass for a biological being? She wasn't discovered until part of her was damaged and she shut off and her internal components were revealed, she only gave a "tell" that Data could pick-up. I guess she wasn't exactly what they were talking about (a biological body with a synthetic brain?) but she seemed to be on that same arc.
And De-Caf Earl Grey? Come-on, Jean-Luc.
But how? Go ahead, outlaw all knowledge of the iPhone. I dare you. How do you do it? Lol. Even in times that predate the ease of information storage and retrieval that we have today, and in extremely repressive and authoritarian regimes, lots of information was actively sought to be buried and suppressed and wasn't. And you're suggesting it could be done in a society more technologically sophisticated than ours, in a society that by all counts is more open and democratic than ours. That's a pretty weak explanation.