Or maybe part of the Khitomer accords had a section about retiring of the consitution class as a big middle finger to Kirk & crew by the Klingons for all the embarassment he cause the Klingon Empire over the years.
PIC S3 Ships & Tech
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You would have to ask them what their logic was. If I had to guess, I would say that they just wanted to make a tribute to whoever designed the ship from that ‘Design the Enterprise-F’ contest STO came up with a decade ago. It would have absolutely NOT been my first choice, but that’s what they did.
One can make a tribute without throwing logic and consistency out the window and removing a perfectly good and able ship (which was basically brand new) from active service.
Special circumstances aside for retiring a ship early, with the ENT-E, it just didn't make sense. I can barely swallow the idea the D was replaced with the E... and even in that case, the saucer (which was mostly intact) could have been repaird and re-attached to another galaxy class stardrive to continue with its service.
At this point I think the writers are introducing unnecessary things to make things 'new' - which doesn't make sense, especially because the Enterprise is not the ship the show is focusing on... the E could have at least continued and it along with the Odyssey could have made a cameo as a tribute.
I think the big issue is that every new Enterprise since the original has been an entirely new class of ship. The Constitution to Constitution II made some sense at the time, but there's really no reason why we couldn't have had this for the Enterprise-E, other than Ron Moore and Frakes weren't too fond of the Galaxy-class based on interviews at the time.
I am not arguing that point. If it were up to me, I'd have set the season in 2411 as was most likely the original intent, and have the Ent-E be decommissioned after 40 years of service, and have the big event of Frontier Day be the commissioning of the new Enterprise-F (but with a new original design, not that thing from STO). But it wasn't up to me.
The reason was that Berman and Braga felt that we had seen seven years of the Enterprise-D, and that it was time to move on to a different ship.
There was some kind of noise around the 1701-D's proportions were better for 4:3 TVs, and that they wanted something long and sleek looking for the big screen, but I have the feeling your reasoning is 90% correct. The other 10% is sort of reflected by the 1701-E, the design of which goes against their previous language by reintroducing long nacelles (previously there seemed to have been the idea that the nacelles were getting smaller each generation of ship, as the technology improved).
I think that's what it comes down to is simply that the powers that be don't like it and then we come up with in universe justification. And my usual one is "The powers that be don't like it."
The ship displays show the Oberon, Gilgamesh, Okuda, Sutherland, Ganymede, Callisto, Venture, Drexler, Huygens, Akira, Resnik, Excelsior, Clark, Ross, Magellan, Appalachia, Gagarin, Reliant, Tourangeau, Reliant, Thunderchild, Harlan, another Clark?, John Kelly, Forrest, Zheng He, Helios, Shackleton, Christopher, Sulu, Cochrane, Trumbull, Mandel, Firesword, and apparently the Pulaski (where?)
Nice shuttle view
Big spoilers (why does this thread not have a tag?
)
Nice shuttle view
Big spoilers (why does this thread not have a tag?
)Molecular Borg telephone
Borg TNG distribution nodes
...and spaghetti in the TNG location behind the head
And maybe the most ships at the same time we've ever seen
(The D and F have special threads)
Borg TNG distribution nodes
...and spaghetti in the TNG location behind the head
And maybe the most ships at the same time we've ever seen
(The D and F have special threads)
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There's no reason to assume the Constitution class was retired after TUC. Just that the Enterprise A was. Modern navies often retire ship classes over long periods of time, based on need, speed of replacement, refit status etc. This ensures that new classes are introduced slowly and cautiously, and that existing spares are used up, whilst enabling yards to have a steady workload rather than boom and bust periods.
Given that: the Ent-A was badly damaged in the events of TUC; the ship may have had a long career before becoming the Ent-A: and the fact that the events of the movie imply a reduction in tensions with the Klingons that may have required a reduced fleet size. Then the Ent-A may have been chosen for decommissioning because she would have required an extensive refit. Whatever the economic reality of the Federation, resources are still finite.
In real world examples USS America was decommissioned long before her older sisters Kitty Hawk and Constellation because when the Cold War ended, she needed an extensive refit that they had already had. Most of the Essex class carriers that had long lives were the earlier ships as they were first to be upgraded and the later ones (except Oriskany) didn't get the refits. More recently both USS Miami and USS Bunker Hill were decommissioned early due to damage that was assessed as not being economical to repair.
Whenever people talk about starship classes being retired they seem to fall back on ideas of block obsolescence that are not always reflective of the real world. Once a technology reaches sufficient maturation, overall designs don't need to change much and instead there is a steady evolution of embedded technology. Witness the Burke class destroyers, Nimitz Class carriers and Virginia class submarines.
Now given that we're not seeing older designs in Picard Seasons 1-3 this could be due to the effects of the Klingon and Dominion Wars in quick succession, War often leads to technological advancement, and anyway, it would have led to rapidly increased construction, Once the war ends if fewer ships are needed in peacetime then naturally the new ones are going to be retained in favour of the older ones.
Makes sense. And much is made of Starfleet making advances in technology.
Major major spoilers...
It would appear that Geordi has the most well funded museum in the history of museums with the restoration of the entire stardrive section of the Enterprise-D (from grabbing parts from other ships like the Syracuse). And it would appear that the whole thing is automated with drones that are able to load torpedoes allowing the bridge crew to fly her into combat. But it's wild to think that a museum ship would have live ordnance and fully functional systems. Why not just put her back in service? 
Hopefully the automation will last longer than Scotty's non-combat-rated automation in "The Search for Spock".
It still looked like there were fewer ships than the finale of Picard S1 but ugh, assuming everyone over 25 was killed off on those ships that is a huge loss of senior officers and given how traumatized Picard and the late Shaw were I don't know how Starfleet's surviving "kids" are going to function even if the Borg are eliminated.
I also hope older characters like the ones from Lower Decks were not killed off in the assimilation.
Hopefully the automation will last longer than Scotty's non-combat-rated automation in "The Search for Spock".
It still looked like there were fewer ships than the finale of Picard S1 but ugh, assuming everyone over 25 was killed off on those ships that is a huge loss of senior officers and given how traumatized Picard and the late Shaw were I don't know how Starfleet's surviving "kids" are going to function even if the Borg are eliminated.
I also hope older characters like the ones from Lower Decks were not killed off in the assimilation.
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What if Geordi loaded up the ship with "Holographic Emergency Crewman".
I remember the La Sirena having programs for Emergency Crew for nearly every role!
What if Geordi installed Holo Emitters every where, activated all his "Holographic Crewman", made sure they had Portable Emitters like "The Doctor", it'd be better than operating with a skeleton crew
I remember the La Sirena having programs for Emergency Crew for nearly every role!
What if Geordi installed Holo Emitters every where, activated all his "Holographic Crewman", made sure they had Portable Emitters like "The Doctor", it'd be better than operating with a skeleton crew
Boy, this’ll take a while to unpack..! More to come on rewatch, but a few less spoilerey notes here:
- For anyone wondering if a certain someone had to be dead for a ship to be named after them…The USS Gerald Ford was named and commissioned while her namesake was still alive - it’s not common but it has happened in US naval history. The carriers Reagan and Bush, and ships named for John Glenn, Gabrielle Giffords and Jimmy Carter are other recent examples.
- The fleet museum must slowly rotate for the Hangar 12 doors to be reoriented to where we saw them. I mean I guess it makes a certain amount of sense, if for no other reason than to give everyone a view of the planet every once in a while.
- Shell be sittin’ on a slightly more significant redress of the usual bridge set. Notably the side chairs and consoles have been removed, and the same CO chair is on an elevated step. We don’t really get to see more than this and the doors leading up to the conference room are both closed and lit differently than on the Titan. While I’m saddened to think that the previously-established, cavernous bridge is not here, it does further the notion that in this era of the show bridges are simply the same from ship to ship of the modern fleet. This gives the USS Excelsior from last year a bigger pass as she also re-used the same bridge set.
- So it IS an Admiralty pin, and not just for the Academy or whatever. It may still be optional, as Fleet Admiral Clancy didn’t wear it, and nor did Admiral Whitney or Admiral Pregnant in episode 201. Perhaps this could be for officers who commanded starships..?
- So who all is watching this fleet review, anyway? People assembled in spacedock? It’s daytime on Earth below, so it’s not like anyone there would have a really clear view of the pageantry and fireworks. I’m sure that there are a billion drone cameras or something buzzing around.
- The shuttle launch was stock footage from several episodes ago, which is notable given how the reused shot had the shuttle exiting the bay and banking over the ship, while here they clearly escape aft of the ship on the later shot.
Mark
- For anyone wondering if a certain someone had to be dead for a ship to be named after them…The USS Gerald Ford was named and commissioned while her namesake was still alive - it’s not common but it has happened in US naval history. The carriers Reagan and Bush, and ships named for John Glenn, Gabrielle Giffords and Jimmy Carter are other recent examples.
- The fleet museum must slowly rotate for the Hangar 12 doors to be reoriented to where we saw them. I mean I guess it makes a certain amount of sense, if for no other reason than to give everyone a view of the planet every once in a while.
- Shell be sittin’ on a slightly more significant redress of the usual bridge set. Notably the side chairs and consoles have been removed, and the same CO chair is on an elevated step. We don’t really get to see more than this and the doors leading up to the conference room are both closed and lit differently than on the Titan. While I’m saddened to think that the previously-established, cavernous bridge is not here, it does further the notion that in this era of the show bridges are simply the same from ship to ship of the modern fleet. This gives the USS Excelsior from last year a bigger pass as she also re-used the same bridge set.
- So it IS an Admiralty pin, and not just for the Academy or whatever. It may still be optional, as Fleet Admiral Clancy didn’t wear it, and nor did Admiral Whitney or Admiral Pregnant in episode 201. Perhaps this could be for officers who commanded starships..?
- So who all is watching this fleet review, anyway? People assembled in spacedock? It’s daytime on Earth below, so it’s not like anyone there would have a really clear view of the pageantry and fireworks. I’m sure that there are a billion drone cameras or something buzzing around.
- The shuttle launch was stock footage from several episodes ago, which is notable given how the reused shot had the shuttle exiting the bay and banking over the ship, while here they clearly escape aft of the ship on the later shot.
Mark
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@mods, if it's not too late we really SHOULD have a Spoiler tag appended to this thread - it's pretty much implied, and I've been posting as though it were, but still... Spoilers for 309 are below:
***
- Troi and Jack have their tete-en-tete in a room labelled "Counsellor" on the door. It makes sense a ship the size of the Titan will have a counsellor and their comfortably-appointed office.
- The multiple monitor setup is indeed in sickbay, meaning that for an expositional scene someone had to wheel in at least three more monitor-equipped stations, and removed the biobed originally there - all this instead of having everyone gather at the conference lounge like they should. Titan clearly still has some Lower Deckers among the crew to do this work.
[Aside: It's rather horrifying to consider that any surviving Starfleet characters from the TNG era shows, Lower Decks and Prodigy who were still serving in Starfleet and potentially aboard a ship in the review, are in mortal danger and probably dead. Conversely, people we know have, or would have joined Starfleet in assorted alternate futures may currently by part of the Veiny and Pasty killer's club, like Miral, Elnor, Kestra, etc. At least Elnor was PROBABLY past the end of his field study and was back at the academy, taking out his pent-up frustrations on the instructo--- oh my God, O'BRIEN!!]
- But what of anyone on a Starbase? Have they gotten round to infecting all the space-based or landside facilities? My gut feel is that the Jacks-mission was aimed squarely at Earth and thus only the ships and bases there were in immediate danger - otherwise, why bother assembling the fleet there for the takeover?
- The many Defiants we see in the Fleet seem to be in clusters of four.
- We see at least two more designs I'm not familiar with, including one I can only describe as a "beefy Akira" with additional impulse engines stacked high - more STO refugees?
- There was at least one Ross-class starship with missing nacelle cowlings in the model, though the bussard collectors were there and red.
- Regardless, as the OG crew escapes it's probably no coincidence that the ships closest to her were the higher-detailed models like the Sagan-class, and not the lower-poly ships like the other STO designs (with the likely and notable exception of the Enterprise-F).
- It's been pointed out that the earlier in-universe news of the Enterprise-F being decommissioned as part of this whole hubbub was part of a ploy tot get her home in time for the takeover, which I like as a theory. We'll see if she survives next week, or if the Enterprise-D is Doctor Who'ed into the franchise as the next Enterprise while also being a previous Enterprise (take THAT, David Tennant!).
- When the gang reunites on Deck 11, Troi has maintained her dolphin phaser while Worf has at last upgraded to the same sidearm that everyone else is using.
- As the Titan shuttle speeds away, it's great that LaForge, some assimilated crew, or the automated launch protoclas remembers to close the garage door on the way out. Still, though - do we meant o suggest that the extra shuttle they made off with, supposedly stored unwatched on a maintenance deck, escapes through the same main hangar door? Is this a Voyager shuttlebay two situation?
- So... Where's the staff and crew at the Fleet Museum? There was no dialogue to indicate that they had been redeployed (unless they meant to have it covered by Riker's line on the fleet being dispersed in 301). Or are we REALLY meant to believe that the whole museum was run by two LaForges? And worse still, that it's been unstaffed for three episodes now... So in the universe where the Borg aren't conspiring to take over Starfleet, do they beam home at night and leave the place unattended, starships and cloaking devices and all? Or do they count on the unseen drones to take care of everything?
- While non-canon, the Jackill's series of Starfleet technical readouts suggests the entire "lower bulb" of the old spacedock was one giant arboretum. This makes it relatively easy for one bored hobbyist to transform it into a huge, enclosed hangar bay to work on a pet project for twenty years.
- The old E-D models didn't have such detail on the lifeboat hatches. We NOW know that they were probably meant to be openable or blowaway hatches concealing the lifeboats beneath (as on Voyager or Defiant), but here they are more detailed hatches or possibly ASRVs mounted flush to the external hull as on the Sovereign.
- LaForge offhandedly noted that they couldn't use the Enterprise-E, mostly as a joke setup for Worf's punchline. Does that mean that if the Enterprise-E were available, it'd have been a useful ship as it was not networked? There were plenty of Sovereign-class ships in the fleet review.
- There are plenty of examples of starships being piloted into battle by as few as a single person, going back to at least "The Doomsday Machine", "The Year of Hell", with honorable mentions to "11001001" , "Remember Me" and so on. I'm not worried that the OG crew can fly and fight with the Enterprise-D, it's mostly being able to sustain and recover from damage that's the problem.
- Crusher reports that all the ship's systems were online, apparently from her tricorder readout?
Mark
PS - it's worth pointing out that this is the FOURTH season ender in the last five years of Star Trek that has involved the severe misuse of networked Federation starships, the others being assorted incidents on Discovery, Lower Decks and Prodigy... And with this episode of Picard, three of them happened in the past year! Strange New Worlds gets a pass by using networked starships as a feint and for non-evil purposes last year, but even that didn't work out effectively for Starfleet.
***
- Troi and Jack have their tete-en-tete in a room labelled "Counsellor" on the door. It makes sense a ship the size of the Titan will have a counsellor and their comfortably-appointed office.
- The multiple monitor setup is indeed in sickbay, meaning that for an expositional scene someone had to wheel in at least three more monitor-equipped stations, and removed the biobed originally there - all this instead of having everyone gather at the conference lounge like they should. Titan clearly still has some Lower Deckers among the crew to do this work.
[Aside: It's rather horrifying to consider that any surviving Starfleet characters from the TNG era shows, Lower Decks and Prodigy who were still serving in Starfleet and potentially aboard a ship in the review, are in mortal danger and probably dead. Conversely, people we know have, or would have joined Starfleet in assorted alternate futures may currently by part of the Veiny and Pasty killer's club, like Miral, Elnor, Kestra, etc. At least Elnor was PROBABLY past the end of his field study and was back at the academy, taking out his pent-up frustrations on the instructo--- oh my God, O'BRIEN!!]
- But what of anyone on a Starbase? Have they gotten round to infecting all the space-based or landside facilities? My gut feel is that the Jacks-mission was aimed squarely at Earth and thus only the ships and bases there were in immediate danger - otherwise, why bother assembling the fleet there for the takeover?
- The many Defiants we see in the Fleet seem to be in clusters of four.
- We see at least two more designs I'm not familiar with, including one I can only describe as a "beefy Akira" with additional impulse engines stacked high - more STO refugees?
- There was at least one Ross-class starship with missing nacelle cowlings in the model, though the bussard collectors were there and red.
- Regardless, as the OG crew escapes it's probably no coincidence that the ships closest to her were the higher-detailed models like the Sagan-class, and not the lower-poly ships like the other STO designs (with the likely and notable exception of the Enterprise-F).
- It's been pointed out that the earlier in-universe news of the Enterprise-F being decommissioned as part of this whole hubbub was part of a ploy tot get her home in time for the takeover, which I like as a theory. We'll see if she survives next week, or if the Enterprise-D is Doctor Who'ed into the franchise as the next Enterprise while also being a previous Enterprise (take THAT, David Tennant!).
- When the gang reunites on Deck 11, Troi has maintained her dolphin phaser while Worf has at last upgraded to the same sidearm that everyone else is using.
- As the Titan shuttle speeds away, it's great that LaForge, some assimilated crew, or the automated launch protoclas remembers to close the garage door on the way out. Still, though - do we meant o suggest that the extra shuttle they made off with, supposedly stored unwatched on a maintenance deck, escapes through the same main hangar door? Is this a Voyager shuttlebay two situation?
- So... Where's the staff and crew at the Fleet Museum? There was no dialogue to indicate that they had been redeployed (unless they meant to have it covered by Riker's line on the fleet being dispersed in 301). Or are we REALLY meant to believe that the whole museum was run by two LaForges? And worse still, that it's been unstaffed for three episodes now... So in the universe where the Borg aren't conspiring to take over Starfleet, do they beam home at night and leave the place unattended, starships and cloaking devices and all? Or do they count on the unseen drones to take care of everything?
- While non-canon, the Jackill's series of Starfleet technical readouts suggests the entire "lower bulb" of the old spacedock was one giant arboretum. This makes it relatively easy for one bored hobbyist to transform it into a huge, enclosed hangar bay to work on a pet project for twenty years.
- The old E-D models didn't have such detail on the lifeboat hatches. We NOW know that they were probably meant to be openable or blowaway hatches concealing the lifeboats beneath (as on Voyager or Defiant), but here they are more detailed hatches or possibly ASRVs mounted flush to the external hull as on the Sovereign.
- LaForge offhandedly noted that they couldn't use the Enterprise-E, mostly as a joke setup for Worf's punchline. Does that mean that if the Enterprise-E were available, it'd have been a useful ship as it was not networked? There were plenty of Sovereign-class ships in the fleet review.
- There are plenty of examples of starships being piloted into battle by as few as a single person, going back to at least "The Doomsday Machine", "The Year of Hell", with honorable mentions to "11001001" , "Remember Me" and so on. I'm not worried that the OG crew can fly and fight with the Enterprise-D, it's mostly being able to sustain and recover from damage that's the problem.
- Crusher reports that all the ship's systems were online, apparently from her tricorder readout?
Mark
PS - it's worth pointing out that this is the FOURTH season ender in the last five years of Star Trek that has involved the severe misuse of networked Federation starships, the others being assorted incidents on Discovery, Lower Decks and Prodigy... And with this episode of Picard, three of them happened in the past year! Strange New Worlds gets a pass by using networked starships as a feint and for non-evil purposes last year, but even that didn't work out effectively for Starfleet.
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Odds are good that they were redeployed for Frontier Day.
Why not?
Dave Blass has started posting about the new ships. First up the Enterprise-F:
https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1647014461054541825
https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1647014461054541825
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You can see the photoshop cut line around the ship. I absolutely love that they're doing this, but that's something of a rookie mistake. :P
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