PHASING CLOAKING DEVICE

[JesterFace]

This question comes from the episode 'The Pegasus', season 7.

Any idea how this device might work? What is it based upon? Could it have something to do with matter-energy conversion in the same way as a transporter?

This is a thing that almost ruins the episode for me, it just seems so unreal... save this episode for me, please =)

(I created a topic asking the same thing long ago but it seems to have vanished...)

 

[BillJ]

The phase cloak is grade-A bolognium.

 

[Mojochi]

Yeah, it changed in theory every time it ever got mentioned on screen, & there's so many inconsistencies, that it can't ever be taken seriously imho

 

[bbjeg]

With tech like transportation and that device Data made in the beginning of Times Arrow that phased him a fraction of a second faster, phase cloaking seems plausible.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think this is from Stargate SG-1, but their version pushed the individual slightly out of phase with the universe, rendering it insubstantial.

The big question, of course, is why didn't they fall through the floor??

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I think this is from Stargate SG-1, but their version pushed the individual slightly out of phase with the universe, rendering it insubstantial.

The big question, of course, is why didn't they fall through the floor??

That was a problem I always had with TNG's The Next Phase, particularly when they push that Romulan out through the wall. I didn't think of it being as much of a problem with the entire ship in Pegasus though.

 

[Enabran]

I think this is from Stargate SG-1, but their version pushed the individual slightly out of phase with the universe, rendering it insubstantial.

The big question, of course, is why didn't they fall through the floor??

That was a problem I always had with TNG's The Next Phase, particularly when they push that Romulan out through the wall. I didn't think of it being as much of a problem with the entire ship in Pegasus though.

My theory for that romulan episode is they would have fallen through both the floors and the walls, but the artificial gravity from the ship affected matter in all phases, and the gravity generators keep them right on the floor. I know, its a bit of a stretch, but it seems like the best explanation. As to how they breathed the oxygen from the ship, I don't know...

With the pegasus though, I think the ship and the crew and the enterprise at the end were both phased out together, so everything still functioned as expected.

 

[BillJ]

I do love how hard people are on the Abrams films because of the science yet give things like this a pass in the Prime timeline series and movies.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

My theory for that romulan episode is they would have fallen through both the floors and the walls, but the artificial gravity from the ship affected matter in all phases, and the gravity generators keep them right on the floor. I know, its a bit of a stretch, but it seems like the best explanation. As to how they breathed the oxygen from the ship, I don't know...

I've tried to consider this too, but keep thinking this would probably just mean they'd fall until their centre of mass (somewhere on the torso I'd imagine) aligned to the gravity plates....

Nah, I still struggle with it.

 

[Timo]

Well, the decks don't just pull - they also have to do a bit of pushing, in order to compensate for the fact that there are many decks atop each other. Artificial gravity is necessarily very different from the real sort, and it would be consistent for our heroes to only sink into the carpeting for an unnoticeable inch or two before the gravity gradient reverses and keeps them afloat. (Why this doesn't happen in TNG "In Theory" might be because the poor woman didn't become phased - the floor did, along with the gravity machinery!)

Phasing in TNG is used amazingly consistently, really: it's the one word that covers all the make-disappear-from-this-universe (with-optional-reappearing-optionally-elsewhere) technologies. And the "Time's Arrow" gobbledigook about existing a bit "sooner" or "later" than the rest of the universe is as good an explanation as any - it certainly should create "directional invisibility", which is pretty much the same thing as being able to walk through solid things (as both vision and the solidity of objects are purely electromagnetic phenomena).

Essentially, a phase cloak would be like a transporter that doesn't rematerialize until commanded. Is a phaser perhaps a transporter that lacks the rematerializing option altogether, then? Are those killed by a phaser at "disintegrate" actually just kicked into a phased limbo, forever transparent to the world (until they die of thirst, that is)?

...And is that limbo full of breathable air in TNG "The Next Phase" because somebody once fired a giant phaser cannon at Alderaan and all the air from the atmosphere got stuck there?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JesterFace]

I do love how hard people are on the Abrams films because of the science yet give things like this a pass in the Prime timeline series and movies.

I'm not giving this thing a pass here, actually quite the opposite.

I might not watch this episode again for a long time, things like this just... ruin the entire episode. And it's not the only one. It's SciFi, but it has to make sense...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I do love how hard people are on the Abrams films because of the science yet give things like this a pass in the Prime timeline series and movies.

Yeah, but episodes like this make up their own fake science so they can do whatever they want with it. Abrams uses something from real science incorrectly. Much worse.

(A black hole made from a few ounces of red goo should have the same gravitational pull as a few ounces of water damn it!)

Phased cloaking makes more sense to me than not being able to fire weapons while cloaked.

 

[BillJ]

I do love how hard people are on the Abrams films because of the science yet give things like this a pass in the Prime timeline series and movies.

I'm not giving this thing a pass here, actually quite the opposite.

I might not watch this episode again for a long time, things like this just... ruin the entire episode. And it's not the only one. It's SciFi, but it has to make sense...

Trek has had bad science as far back as I can remember.

 

[bbjeg]

Yeah, Mythbusters disproved the hell out of Kirk's bamboo cannon.

 

[HIjol]

Yeah, Mythbusters disproved the hell out of Kirk's bamboo cannon.

OK, but if he had looked around for something he could have used to form a rudimentary lathe...

...oh, wait...no...

 

[BillJ]

Yeah, Mythbusters disproved the hell out of Kirk's bamboo cannon.

Yup. Science has never been Trek's strong suit.

 

[HIjol]

Yeah, Mythbusters disproved the hell out of Kirk's bamboo cannon.

Yup. Science has never been Trek's strong suit.

Maybe so, but TOS sure did have one hell of a Science Officer!

 

[TheGoodStuff]

I do love how hard people are on the Abrams films because of the science yet give things like this a pass in the Prime timeline series and movies.

I'm not giving this thing a pass here, actually quite the opposite.

I might not watch this episode again for a long time, things like this just... ruin the entire episode. And it's not the only one. It's SciFi, but it has to make sense...

I think that is taking things a little too seriously. It is a fun episode. It's a phase cloak, a super-duper awesome bit of tech. A plot device. Don't let it ruin the episode for you.

Besides, is the notion really that preposterous? It phases the ship out of space so it can pass through solid objects, it actually doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. [Especially in-universe]

 

[HIjol]

There is so much related to Physics and Space-Time that we do not know...yet.

I agree with TheGoodStuff, and others, on both points. Enjoy the Wonder and Possibility of each and every episode (ok, ok, and chuckle a bit at the parts that are a little "out there") but don't let any of it be negative to the point of avoidance. And, look to the Future. We will unlock and accomplish SO much in the coming decades and centuries. Star Trek may be reflected upon on Prescient and Predictive by our future selves.

Boldly Have Fun!

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

There is so much related to Physics and Space-Time that we do not know...yet.

I agree with TheGoodStuff, and others, on both points. Enjoy the Wonder and Possibility of each and every episode (ok, ok, and chuckle a bit at the parts that are a little "out there") but don't let any of it be negative to the point of avoidance.

I still like pointing out the problems though - that is part of the fun. I don't avoid episodes just because of them though so I do agree.

And, look to the Future. We will unlock and accomplish SO much in the coming decades and centuries. Star Trek may be reflected upon on Prescient and Predictive by our future selves.

As long as we don't turn into "warp worms" I'm good with that!

 

[HIjol]

There is so much related to Physics and Space-Time that we do not know...yet.

I agree with TheGoodStuff, and others, on both points. Enjoy the Wonder and Possibility of each and every episode (ok, ok, and chuckle a bit at the parts that are a little "out there") but don't let any of it be negative to the point of avoidance.

I still like pointing out the problems though - that is part of the fun. I don't avoid episodes just because of them though so I do agree.

And, look to the Future. We will unlock and accomplish SO much in the coming decades and centuries. Star Trek may be reflected upon on Prescient and Predictive by our future selves.

As long as we don't turn into "warp worms" I'm good with that!

Good to hear, and I did mean my comment in the least critical of ways. Pointing out and discussing the problems is part of what BBS is all about!

Yeah, no Warp Worms for this SpaceFarer! See you on the Bridge!