Phase II story arcs used for most of the Kirk and gang movies?

[Phoenix219]

I strongly suspect that Shatner expected Roddenberry to embrace his story about a search for God, because it had echoes of previous Roddenberry themes - but he ended up getting quite public anti-Sybok critiques from both Roddenberry and DC Fontana, who even quoted her old TOS studio memos regarding her attempts to keep Spock "without siblings" so the character would not be watered down. In her novel, "Vulcan's Glory", she deliberately had Amanda state that Spock was "the only son of Sarek". (I once told her in a Q&A that I suspected it was on purpose and she winked and agreed.)

ST II did have Lt Saavik, who was based on a young male Dr Savik from a different ST II pitch, and that Dr Savik may have had roots in Lt Xon of "Phase II", although it could also be coincidence.

Does anyone know anything more about that Samuel Peeples script? I've heard the name of it, but it eludes me.... other than that, I know absolutely nothing about it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Does anyone know anything more about that Samuel Peeples script? I've heard the name of it, but it eludes me.... other than that, I know absolutely nothing about it.

"In the summer of 1981, Peeples was reacquainted with 'Star Trek' when he wrote a story outline, 'Worlds That Never Were', for what was later to become 'Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan'. By 24 August he had translated his story outline into a first script draft, now entitled 'The New Star Trek', which was ultimately passed over for a final variant version by Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer. He wrote some additional material (including his original Doctor Savik character becoming Lieutenant Saavik) into the screenplay of the movie, but went uncredited for his contributions. ('The Making of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan', pp. 47-51; 'Star Trek: The Magazine' Volume 3, Issue 5, pp. 84-85)" - Memory Alpha.

Male Dr Savik also survives into "The Genesis Project", by Jack B. Sowards and Harve Bennett:
http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/the_genesis_project.htm

 

[JonnyQuest037]

he ended up getting quite public anti-Sybok critiques from both Roddenberry and DC Fontana, who even quoted her old TOS studio memos regarding her attempts to keep Spock "without siblings" so the character would not be watered down. In her novel, "Vulcan's Glory", she deliberately had Amanda state that Spock was "the only son of Sarek".

Fontana was damn right and I wish they'd listened to her.

 

[Phoenix219]

Fontana was damn right and I wish they'd listened to her.

Especially as older friend / mentor figure would have worked just as well. Spock's torment by his peers and issues with his emotions seem like the thing they could have connected over. Trusted family friend, uncle figure... any of it works without making a mess out of it.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

To be fair, Sybok was a full Vulcan, if unconventional, and a seven-year gap between the boys wouldn't have helped matters with Spock and Sybok's relationship. As for Michael... I don't know enough to comment...

 

[mb22]

Does anyone know anything more about that Samuel Peeples script? I've heard the name of it, but it eludes me.... other than that, I know absolutely nothing about it.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek_II:_The_Wrath_of_Khan#The_New_Star_Trek

 

[BillJ]

Fontana was damn right and I wish they'd listened to her.

I do listen to her. Which is why I shunt most everything after TMP into a separate universe.

 

[Phoenix219]

I do listen to her. Which is why I shunt most everything after TMP into a separate universe.

There is a whole conversation elsewhere on the board recently concerning the Bennetverse being an alternate continuity that conflicts with elements of TMP.

 

[BillJ]

There is a whole conversation elsewhere on the board recently concerning the Bennetverse being an alternate continuity that conflicts with elements of TMP.

I think it is all "canon", I just see it as a multiverse.

1. TOS, TMP, TAS.
2. STII-VI, TNG, DS9, VOY, STVII-X, LD.
3. The Abrams films.
4. STX, Enterprise, DSC, Picard.

 

[Phoenix219]

I used to try to reconcile everything, but I agree for the most part. TMP Kirk learned the lesson and escaped the fate of WOK Kirk years earlier; he wouldn't have been so easily re-shelved in a few years for WoK. I like the thought of a whole clean slate of adventures waiting for the TMP crew. WoK Enterprise didn't just get refit; it was an old retired training vessel. Khan's origin is changed a bit; the uniforms and general aesthetics are completely different. I've always felt that First Contact spun off the Enterprise, DSC, Picard timeline, so I couldn't agree more. I definitely see the Abramsverse as more of a tunneling into a neighboring Alt-U, more than time travel, so also much agreed. I am in general full agreement with your consensus.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

the uniforms and general aesthetics are completely different.

So? The uniforms and aesthetics being different in TMP and TWOK is no indication that the two movies took place in separate universes. If our universe can produce both looks in the space of 2 1/2 years (with the same costume designer, even!), then certainly the ST Universe can produce them both in the space of 12.

 

[BillJ]

So? The uniforms and aesthetics being different in TMP and TWOK is no indication that the two movies took place in separate universes. If our universe can produce both looks in the space of 2 1/2 years (with the same costume designer, even!), then certainly the ST Universe can produce them both in the space of 12.

Of course, it is just how a person personally interprets the material. It is a beautiful thing that we can all watch the various shows and movies and come up with many interpretations and share them with other fans.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Of course, it is just how a person personally interprets the material. It is a beautiful thing that we can all watch the various shows and movies and come up with many interpretations and share them with other fans.

I just tire of the "Oh, this movie or episode is slightly different, therefore it MUST be an alternate universe!" thing. A little of that goes a long way.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Roddenberry gave us the ultimate "in-universe" out for any differences in production aesthetics in his introduction to the TMP novelization, saying what we saw was the dramatic interpretation of the universe.

 

[PCz911]

There is a whole conversation elsewhere on the board recently concerning the Bennetverse being an alternate continuity that conflicts with elements of TMP.

Huh, I couldn’t find the discussion. However, I’ve got to say, it never dawned on me since I’m so darn literal…. But it totally makes sense

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I like the "dramatic interpretation" explanation as why we see different things on the screen, myself.