Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.

[TheLobes]

Yep. Im not saying its the most entertaining, Im saying its the best of a bad lot. None of my friends will hear any of this, so I thought Id ask a few people on here what they think.

I actually get the impression that George worked pretty hard on TPM, that was genuinely surprised at the critical reaction, and after that he just filled the next two with constant CGI and sped up fighting.

Dont get me wrong, TMP wasnt good, but it had a story which followed a sequence of events in which every character played some sort of role. Theres only two lightsaber duels, one is very brief, and the other is the big fight that has been built up throughout the movie, and the battles actually meant something within the story, lame though it was. Theres also a LOT more dialogue than the other movies. To me this indicates more effort on Lucas' part, trying to actually tell a story.

I can watch TMP with more patience because at least every part of the story is trying to mean something, and isnt just filler. The story itself is pretty Star Warsy, band of misfit heroes get stuck in a situation too big for them and have to improvise a solution. 90 percent of the second two prequels was filler, and theres almost no dialogue scenes in ROTS. Its just things fighting, and Anakin 'turning evil'.

Hell, even Anakin was better in TPM. Yes, he was totally annoying, but at least he somewhat demonstrated a maturity greater than his age. Hayden Anakin was just a psychopath with no smarts or maturity to suggest he could become Darth Vader.

It always annoys me when people say: 'yeah the first two sucked, but I really loved the third one.' ROTS is even higher rated on rotten tomatos than ROTJ! Nothing happens in ROTS!

 

[Set Harth]

Some people insist that ROTS is as good as ANH and TESB.

Probably because that's what they hoped would happen, and they haven't accepted reality yet.

 

[TheLobes]

Some people insist that ROTS is as good as ANH and TESB.
.

I just dont understand how that argument would go...

 

[Cutter John]

Some people insist that ROTS is as good as ANH and TESB.

Probably because that's what they hoped would happen, and they haven't accepted reality yet.

Maybe if you hit the 'skip' button during the crappy parts.

 

[Trekker4747]

I actually get the impression that George worked pretty hard on TPM, that was genuinely surprised at the critical reaction, and after that he just filled the next two with constant CGI and sped up fighting.

I could dig it up somewhere, but there's a video out there of George partaking in a screening of the final cut of Episode I with all of his Yes Men (Sometimes called "directors and producers") muttering that he thinks he made have made a mistake upon watching it. As for "worked pretty hard" I could also point to the countless videos of him pretty much sitting in his director's chair drinking coffee barely directing the actors and talking about all the bullshit and scenery he'll add in post.

As I recall during the casting process there's even video of him quipping he better start on the final script and there's even stories of him writing the script as they went along based of an outline he had worked up only a year or so before hand.

In short, no. Lucas did not work "very hard" on the movie. I'm sure he worked hard but when you look and video and photos of him making the first movie(s) you see him with his sleeves rolled up getting dirty with the model work and actually directing his actors. Not sitting in his chair talking about how great the effects work they're going to add in later will work.

And the flaws in TPM have been discussed about over and over again for 12 years now. The flaws are enormous and they've nothing to do with the look or the effects of the film which are pretty good. The characters are pointless, bland, and 2/5s of them are just annoying.

Watch Episode IV sometimes and watch Luke's "journey" in that movie from little more than a farm-hand dreaming of a better and more adventurous life to becoming something of a war hero by the end of the movie.

Compare that to Obi-Won and Qui-gon speaking blandly in a desert for 30 minutes about bullshit no one cares about while we get our nice little "meet cute" between a teenage girl who is leader of a world and a prepubescent boy working as a slave.

There's a moment in EIV where Luke looks over the setting suns of Tatooine pondering his future and longing for adventure and excitement beyond his uncle's moisture farm. The theme swells and sense of adventure can be sensed as we've seen the dangers that lurk out there and the evil the waits for him.

In Episode One we get Jar Jar shouting "Weesa going home!!!!"

Episode I just does not have that sense of adventure and wonder. Hell, the entire movie's plot deals with taxes and trade blockades. In Episode IV the freedom of the galaxy and a princess's life was at stake!

Hell the entire Prequel Trilogy's suspense lies on the fact that we the viewers know what is going to eventually happen. It doesn't build up to the moment where Anakin (who's been pretty much a whiny bitch or a child the entire time) falls from Grace to join the dark side. It doesn't clearly show the evil empire taking over except for mostly boring scenes with squabbling diplomats and senators in a government chamber.

Yep, the pre-trilogy had all of the excitement of C-SPAN.

There's no adventure or excitement in the movies and it doesn't make us want to care for the characters. As I've said before when Anakin gets critically injured it should have been a big deal. Anakin should have been to shown to practically Jesus who was simply made of the light-side and was completely good in incorruptible. Who was simply able to shrug off the death of his mother as "the Force's will" and continue to be all that is good.

And then a threat of Padme's life pushes him over the edge as he's twisted by Palpatine, lead to believe Obi-Won was to be blamed and then we get the epic battle between the two and Anakin's fall meant something and was a great fall from Grace. A shock.

Is it really a shock when someone who had gleefully murdered women and children turns to the dark side?

There's no arc, there's no story, it's just all nonsense and CGI and a lot of muddy stuff that isn't even completely fleshed out.

Ugh.

Lucas, why?

 

[Biffette]

I agree that TPM is the best of the three, but I'll go a little further: TPM is a great movie, and young Anakin wasn't annoying. Seriously. What were people expecting? Citizen Kane? Casablanca? This is a fun movie filled with battles, action sequences, loaded with characters. I remember watching this in the theater. I was excited; in suspense. In The Phantom Menace there is so much going on thematically, visually, emotionally, that it florishes upon multiple re-watching.

 

[RoJoHen]

90 percent of the second two prequels was filler

And 90 percent of TPM was pod racing. How is that better?

Seriously, though, I think all of the prequels probably look awesome on paper. I admit I loved all of them the first time I saw them (this is true for a lot of movie for me). They just don't hold up very well after that when you can actually pay attention to all the details.

I did enjoy a lot of what TPM did, but so much of it (like the acting and dialogue) just makes it unbearable to watch again. I think the second two suffer the most, though, because they are so detached from TPM. There is way too much time in between, and Padme apparently doesn't age.

 

[Biffette]

Yep, the pre-trilogy had all of the excitement of C-SPAN.

I don't like to create text walls so even though I disagree with you on several points I will remark on this one only. I love C-SPAN. C-SPAN is informative and engrossing, especially when it is airing congress in session. Sometimes I'll flip back and forth between C-SPAN and C-SPAN2 so I can watch both the House of Reps and the Senate at the same time because it is that cool.

 

[Stevil2001]

I agree completely with the OP. The Phantom Menace is the best prequel film.

- less Hayden Christiansen
- more Liam Neeson
- hilarious aliens (I love the Neimoidians, what can I say? also Watto)
- Padme actually has some agency
- Ian McDiarmid hasn't forgotten how to act
- the lightsaber battle actually has tension
- John Williams isn't phoning it in yet
- okay, so Darth Maul is kinda boring, but at least he's not General Grievous
- it has a band of adventurers going on a strange quest together, which makes it the most like A New Hope
- BRIAN BLESSED
- the space battle is contrived, but it's not dull like the Battle of Coruscant

 

[Greylock Crescent]

I still enjoy ROTS the most out of the PT, but an argument can be made that TPM is the most comprehensive, epic, and well-crafted of the three PT films. I say this because GL & co. had the most amount of time to produce the movie. There was no rush of an artificial timeline imposed by GL himself. AOTC suffered the worst from this lack of foresight and flexibility. But at the very least, TPM (which has very obvious flaws) felt like a film that was intentionally crafted from start to finish -- rather than rushed to an artificial, incomplete finish.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yep, the pre-trilogy had all of the excitement of C-SPAN.

I don't like to create text walls so even though I disagree with you on several points I will remark on this one only. I love C-SPAN. C-SPAN is informative and engrossing, especially when it is airing congress in session. Sometimes I'll flip back and forth between C-SPAN and C-SPAN2 so I can watch both the House of Reps and the Senate at the same time because it is that cool.

Yes, but C-SPAN isn't a summer blockbuster action/sci-fi movie, is it?

 

[RoJoHen]

Yep, the pre-trilogy had all of the excitement of C-SPAN.

I don't like to create text walls so even though I disagree with you on several points I will remark on this one only. I love C-SPAN. C-SPAN is informative and engrossing, especially when it is airing congress in session. Sometimes I'll flip back and forth between C-SPAN and C-SPAN2 so I can watch both the House of Reps and the Senate at the same time because it is that cool.

Yes, but C-SPAN isn't a summer blockbuster action/sci-fi movie, is it?

It will be when somebody does a reboot.

 

[RandyS]

I still enjoy ROTS the most out of the PT, but an argument can be made that TPM is the most comprehensive, epic, and well-crafted of the three PT films.

I agree. ROTS is the best if the PT. TPM is an almost literal retelling of ANH.

It's almost as if Lucas didn't even try.

 

[Biffette]

The tariff discussions and senate scenes in TPM were awesome, and some of the best parts of the movie.

 

[TheLobes]

Trekker4747, Im not going to quote your whole post, but come on, Im not saying that TPM was better than any original movie. Im not even saying its good, Im just saying its the best of the three from an objective stand point.

The characters might be bland and crappy, but at least most of them did something during the film. The only characters to actually do anything to add to the story in AOTC and ROTS are Anakin and the Emperor. Theres nothing Padme, Obi-Wan, threepio, R2 or Yoda do that move the story along, and you could have had the entire movie without them without and it wouldnt change the end at all.

Apart from the droids, all the characters in TPM are used for something, even if its something small, within the story. Bland they may be, but not totally filler.

Youre probably right that Lucas didnt work too hard on TMP, Ill admit that. However, he put in a lot more effort than the other prequels.

I dont know if anyone has read the Dark Tower series by Stephen King? The first four were awesome, then, after a long wait, the fifth one came out and it was awful. The last two were hurried out in a few months are were terrible, terrible books. Sometimes writers just lose it as they get older, but they have the finish what they started.

 

[Stevil2001]

I don't understand what anyone sees in Revenge of the Sith. A bunch of cyphers fly back and forth, and then there's a fight and it's over. And the fights somehow all conspire to be boring, which is amazing coming from the director who made one of the tensest scenes in cinema. Is it the acting? The dialogue? The jokes? What does that movie have going for it?

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

AOTC and ROTS really don't hold up on repeat viewings. It's kind of shocking how cringe inducingly bad some of the scenes and dialogue are. While TPM is bad too I kind of get where the OP is coming from. The movie does have some structure, and is a little less of "let's have endless meetings". It has a semi-coherent plot. But Jar Jar is as bad as the (negative) hype, and it gets hit with most of the crushing disappointment from fans who came in expecting the prequels to be genuinely good, because well it was the first and had the expectations.

 

[TheLobes]

But Jar Jar is as bad as the (negative) hype, and it gets hit with most of the crushing disappointment from fans who came in expecting the prequels to be genuinely good, because well it was the first and had the expectations.

Youre right, it did have the problem of being the first movie. I also think its more in your face bad, whereas you can easily switch off your brain and enjoy ROTS. Jar Jar is no worse a character than Grevious, hes just more obviously bad.

If they'd given Jar Jar the ability to wield four lightsabers Im sure all the fanboys would go on about how awesome he was....

 

[RoJoHen]

Is it the acting? The dialogue? The jokes? What does that movie have going for it?

I blame the casting more than anything for my dislike of the prequels. I honestly have no problems with these actors in general, and I think many of them are quite talented, but they were just wrong for these movies. I never really felt like they were natural in the roles they were playing, unlike the actors in the original trilogy, who may as well have been born as those characters.

The prequels also have a distinct lack of humor. The characters are not relatable.

 

[RandyS]

The tariff discussions and senate scenes in TPM were awesome, and some of the best parts of the movie.

At least those had actual exposition. Unlike the damn podrace that went on forty minutes too long. A better way to show off Anakin's force potiental (assuming that was even the point) would have been to have Padme and Shimi talk to each other about it. You now, two characters who were dead two movies later? In this way, we would have learned about Anakin, AND seen more of them.