Petition CBS to fix the problems with TNG:S2 Blu.

[BillJ]

I dunno, I'm the guy who sees no point in buying the BluRay sets that are just slightly better than my current DVD sets.

I really wish people would quit saying this, it's simply a lie. Not only is the picture more detailed, the colors are truer and the sound is better.

You don't want to shell out for the upgraded sets? Fine. But it's pretty poor to be spreading out-and-out falsehoods.

Wow, so all your opinions are facts and anyone who disagrees with your opinion and has a different one is lying now? How objective of you.

As I said, it's slightly better. I'm sure you can point out all the small little details. To me it's quite insignificant and not worth shelling money for another set of DVDs when I have a perfectly good set now. If you want to, that is your prerogative, but it's pretty poor of you to be thinking your views are the only prevailing ones.

It's not about opinion, it's about technical fact. Go study up on bit rate during playback and number of pixels on the screen.

 

[R. Star]

I really wish people would quit saying this, it's simply a lie. Not only is the picture more detailed, the colors are truer and the sound is better.

You don't want to shell out for the upgraded sets? Fine. But it's pretty poor to be spreading out-and-out falsehoods.

Wow, so all your opinions are facts and anyone who disagrees with your opinion and has a different one is lying now? How objective of you.

As I said, it's slightly better. I'm sure you can point out all the small little details. To me it's quite insignificant and not worth shelling money for another set of DVDs when I have a perfectly good set now. If you want to, that is your prerogative, but it's pretty poor of you to be thinking your views are the only prevailing ones.

It's not about opinion, it's about technical fact. Go study up on bit rate during playback and number of pixels on the screen.

Yes, all that leads to slightly better graphics and sounds. If you think that's awesome, good for you. That doesn't mean I'm "lying" because I don't share your opinion of it.

So no, your opinion is not "technical fact."

 

[Trekker4747]

The Blu-Ray discs have almost 2-1/2 times the resolution of the DVDs, which means a sharper picture. A simple look at screencaps will show a sharper picture and more vibrant colors. It IS a matter of technical fact. The Blu-Rays are a SIGNIFICANT improvement in picture quality over the DVDs, sourced from freaking VHS tape!

One look at any of the comparison videos that are out there and you can clearly see the difference in sharpness, quality, and colors. This is no slight improvement. It's night and day.

But, hey, the special effects team for Season-2 made a sliver of a viewscreen clip into the wall, so.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

I dunno, I'm the guy who sees no point in buying the BluRay sets that are just slightly better than my current DVD sets. My Trek experience really isn't going to be enhanced by being able to see their zippers better or slightly beefed up graphics. The cut scenes/outtakes and other extras are interesting, but will end up on youtube anyways.

And as mentioned, I'm sure there will be another edition some years down the road anyways. Lucas seems to have known what he was doing in re-releasing it every 10 years or so with new editing to generate sales.

It's odd that you bring up Lucas when what he did with the original Star Wars Trilogy on Blu-ray is the antithesis of what is being done with Star Trek: The Next Generation. Lucas didn't go back to the original 35mm camera negatives and re-scan them. He didn't try to re-create the original look of the VFX.

And belittling the quite significant audio/visual improvements found on the TNG Blu-rays in order to justify not buying them is silly and unnecessary. No one here is going to hold it against you if you acknowledged the great improvements the Blu-rays offer yet simply said that your money would be better spent on other more important things right now.

Or in regard to this petition, to simply say, "No thanks, I don't even own a blu-ray player."

 

[Maxwell Everett]

The Blu-Ray discs have almost 2-1/2 times the resolution of the DVDs, which means a sharper picture. A simple look at screencaps will show a sharper picture and more vibrant colors. It IS a matter of technical fact. The Blu-Rays are a SIGNIFICANT improvement in picture quality over the DVDs, sourced from freaking VHS tape!

It's actually 4.5 times the resolution of the DVDs! (measuring the active picture area of the Blu-rays, e.g. 1440x1080 vs. 720x480). And the DVDs were sourced from (originally) 1-inch analog reel-to-reel tape (VHS was a half-inch consumer format)... but I wholeheartedly agree with your point. In fact, the perceivable jump in color, contrast and resolution is probably even greater due to the other inherent limitations of the old NTSC composite interlaced tape format.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Well, if you don't own an HDTV, you don't really need Blu-rays, no...

 

[Paper Moon]

Wow, folks, calm down. Signing NewHorizon's petition takes a teeny-weeny-eensy bit of effort. I imagine it took him no more than an hour to set it up. He lets it sit and gather what signatures it will and then, after some amount of time, sends it off to CBS. That is, cumulatively, a very small amount of effort expended on this project.

I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.

Furthermore, something like this reminds them that the fans do care about this stuff.

Lastly, this petition is polite. This petition does not say, "I'm a crazy Trekkie and I demand that you fix every last continuity error in episode 28, such as when the Yamato's dedication plate clearly does not say 'Yamato,' but is rather an obvious and lazy reuse of the Enterprise bridge set," à la Comic Book Guy. NewHorizon has written a polite, nice letter saying that we care about this and would appreciate CBS considering bringing S2 up to S1's quality. It's reasonable and is frankly the kind of letter I would write if I was disappointed with a product put out by a local, Mom-and-Pop store.

He freely admits that it probably won't go anywhere, but he wants to give it a shot, because he gives a damn.

Where exactly is the harm in that?

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

I dunno, I'm the guy who sees no point in buying the BluRay sets that are just slightly better than my current DVD sets.

I really wish people would quit saying this, it's simply a lie. Not only is the picture more detailed, the colors are truer and the sound is better.

You don't want to shell out for the upgraded sets? Fine. But it's pretty poor to be spreading out-and-out falsehoods.

BillJ, your treading might close to the flaming line. Nothing Star Grinch says is a lie, not even close. If the story outweighs the image quality for him, it is a reasonable opinion. You need to back off.

 

[TemporalFlux]

The only way I see this happening is if the corrected season two is released exclusive to a complete series set (thus encouraging a purchase of it). There would be a lot of people angry at the double dip, though.

 

[I-Am-Prepared!]

Wow, why all the vitriol towards the OP for setting up a petition? The quality of the restoration work on S2 is genuinely below-average in a number of ways, certainly compared to S1. I doubt a petition is going to make any difference, but the problems with this Blu-ray release are far from minor - I don't see the harm in fans making their disappointment heard.

 

[Trekker4747]

Because it's the classic internet overreaction to things to start an online petition thinking it'll, somehow, get a business to care and make a change. The petition has no chance of working, no on-line petition for anything has worked. Companies just aren't that swayed by a list of mostly anonymous "signatures" on a website.

I see on-line petitions as not much more than someone pouting and stomping their feet. On-line petitions are another modern-day society release valve, sort of like the "close the doors" button on an elevator. It actually does nothing but it makes the user feel like they are in-charge of something. It's a placebo.

 

[DostoyevskyClone]

Wow, folks, calm down. Signing NewHorizon's petition takes a teeny-weeny-eensy bit of effort. I imagine it took him no more than an hour to set it up. He lets it sit and gather what signatures it will and then, after some amount of time, sends it off to CBS. That is, cumulatively, a very small amount of effort expended on this project.

I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.

Furthermore, something like this reminds them that the fans do care about this stuff.

Lastly, this petition is polite. This petition does not say, "I'm a crazy Trekkie and I demand that you fix every last continuity error in episode 28, such as when the Yamato's dedication plate clearly does not say 'Yamato,' but is rather an obvious and lazy reuse of the Enterprise bridge set," à la Comic Book Guy. NewHorizon has written a polite, nice letter saying that we care about this and would appreciate CBS considering bringing S2 up to S1's quality. It's reasonable and is frankly the kind of letter I would write if I was disappointed with a product put out by a local, Mom-and-Pop store.

He freely admits that it probably won't go anywhere, but he wants to give it a shot, because he gives a damn.

Where exactly is the harm in that?

I agree. He did the hard work, so all people have to do is suggest changes to wording, etc. and then sign it. Even if CBS doesn't rerelease season two, it might give CBS pause when it comes to seasons four and six and the kind of oversight that should be given to those seasons.

Things that seem unlikely can and do happen - TNG is being remastered, let's remember that.

What are the alternatives? Vote with your wallet?

 

[NewHorizon]

Thanks for the kind words.

The reason I opened this up on the forums was to let everyone here have a chance to contribute. I will have to scan through the thread again, but I don't recall seeing a single suggestion toward improving what I wrote for the petition description.

The floor is open and rather than debating whether or not a petition will work, I would love to get some feedback on how I might make the introductory text better.

 

[Salinga]

I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.

Well, since the amount of footage, that has to be redone, is limited (and thus the costs), it actually might happen. Maybe after season 7 has been done and the sfx teams have a very polished, quick workflow, they put the lacking scenes into the pipe again and put them on the next release of Season 2.

And as motivation I dont think they need a petition for that. Those involved into the remaster of TNG and like to watch the show themselves, are probably even more "pissed" than some of us are. Because they are professionals and they probably see even more errors than we do and are even more irritated by them. And not only out of personal drive to make a polished product from 1st season to the last, but also out of interest to make a little more money with this project, it would not surprise me if internally some already are pushing to polish Season 2 again.

 

[Finn]

Can someone post screenshots showing the examples of the problems? It's silly to ask for a petition when a lot of us probably haven't seen it..

 

[cbspock]

I didn't see anything wrong with Season 2. It was a faithful representation of Season 2. It still looks better than it did when it first aired. They were not changing any of the effects as part of the restoration. I want the 4 episodes that were done with the original CGI Enterprise in the original series restoration redone before Season 2 of TNG.


-Chris

 

[TheSeeker]

Can someone post screenshots showing the examples of the problems? It's silly to ask for a petition when a lot of us probably haven't seen it..

Just read through the S2 thread. There are plenty of examples in there.

 

[BriGuy]

I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.

Well, since the amount of footage, that has to be redone, is limited (and thus the costs), it actually might happen. Maybe after season 7 has been done and the sfx teams have a very polished, quick workflow, they put the lacking scenes into the pipe again and put them on the next release of Season 2.

And as motivation I dont think they need a petition for that. Those involved into the remaster of TNG and like to watch the show themselves, are probably even more "pissed" than some of us are. Because they are professionals and they probably see even more errors than we do and are even more irritated by them. And not only out of personal drive to make a polished product from 1st season to the last, but also out of interest to make a little more money with this project, it would not surprise me if internally some already are pushing to polish Season 2 again.

Errors are a part of life. Little to nothing is "perfect." Sometimes, mistakes are part of the "art." And it's also part of the history.

I highly, highly doubt there will be a second Season 2 release. It would not be profitable, which is the biggest motivating factor, of course. I'm sure there's many fans who won't buy it again. Heck, I'm sure there are DVD owners who don't feel like buying TNG again.

 

[BriGuy]

I dunno, I'm the guy who sees no point in buying the BluRay sets that are just slightly better than my current DVD sets.

I really wish people would quit saying this, it's simply a lie. Not only is the picture more detailed, the colors are truer and the sound is better.

You don't want to shell out for the upgraded sets? Fine. But it's pretty poor to be spreading out-and-out falsehoods.

Wow, so all your opinions are facts and anyone who disagrees with your opinion and has a different one is lying now? How objective of you.

As I said, it's slightly better. I'm sure you can point out all the small little details. To me it's quite insignificant and not worth shelling money for another set of DVDs when I have a perfectly good set now. If you want to, that is your prerogative, but it's pretty poor of you to be thinking your views are the only prevailing ones.

Do you have an HD TV and a bluray player?

The resolution is higher, the audio is better. A bluray disc holds much more data than a DVD, which is how you get that, when displayed properly. That's a fact.

I know it can be easy to have the "well DVD is good enough" perspective, especially if you haven't seen the high def image. I simply don't know where you are coming from.

When I bought my first HD TV just a year ago, I first watched DVDs on it on my old DVD player and thought it looked fantastic.

Then I got a bluray player and saw how much better it can look.

What you have often seems good enough until you see what you could have. I've had that happen with computers, too.

 

[BriGuy]

Wow, folks, calm down. Signing NewHorizon's petition takes a teeny-weeny-eensy bit of effort. I imagine it took him no more than an hour to set it up. He lets it sit and gather what signatures it will and then, after some amount of time, sends it off to CBS. That is, cumulatively, a very small amount of effort expended on this project.

I doubt CBS will redo S2 anytime soon, but they might eventually, and will be more likely to do so at some point if there's a petition with however many fans nicely asking them to.

Furthermore, something like this reminds them that the fans do care about this stuff.

Lastly, this petition is polite. This petition does not say, "I'm a crazy Trekkie and I demand that you fix every last continuity error in episode 28, such as when the Yamato's dedication plate clearly does not say 'Yamato,' but is rather an obvious and lazy reuse of the Enterprise bridge set," à la Comic Book Guy. NewHorizon has written a polite, nice letter saying that we care about this and would appreciate CBS considering bringing S2 up to S1's quality. It's reasonable and is frankly the kind of letter I would write if I was disappointed with a product put out by a local, Mom-and-Pop store.

He freely admits that it probably won't go anywhere, but he wants to give it a shot, because he gives a damn.

Where exactly is the harm in that?

Exactly. It took little effort on his part, takes very little effort on our part, and so will merit very, very little attention from CBS.

It's just pointless.