Peter David didn't come up with the childhood abuse angle for Bruce Banner. Bill Mantlo did in Incredible Hulk #312 if I'm not mistaken.
Peter David
- Thread starter Garm Bel Iblis
- Start date
You are not mistaken.
An interesting footnote to that is that this idea was originally planned by Barry Windsor-Smith for a standalone issue of The Incredible Hulk which never saw print and is now being reworked by Windsor-Smith for an original, non-Hulk graphic novel called Monster. (Apparently, Windsor-Smith was none too happy with Mantlo's Hulk issue when it came out....)
I remember it pretty clearly. I'm gonna sound like a pussy but... I cried when I read that issue. I've always identified with the Hulk more than any other comic book character so... It was a heartbreaking read.
Noted.
And most Australian JB HiFi stores still have these from the JJ DVD release, installed over the security tag gates:
Agreed, on all counts. That comic is one of my favorite Hulk comics of all time, and one of the best things Bill Mantlo ever wrote.
I have most of all of PAD's ST novels except the below. Can you tell me what you think? Do you recommend, the below and if so why (w/o spoilers please).
(The only PAD ST that I read and then sold to a used book store was I, Q. I don't know if it was b/c it was a collaboration, but I thought it was not great at all. Every other PAD book, including all of his NF books, that are not listed below, I still proudly hold as part of my collection.)
Anyhow, the PAD ST books I haven't read are listed below. Do you think I should?
Star Trek:
(The only PAD ST that I read and then sold to a used book store was I, Q. I don't know if it was b/c it was a collaboration, but I thought it was not great at all. Every other PAD book, including all of his NF books, that are not listed below, I still proudly hold as part of my collection.)
Anyhow, the PAD ST books I haven't read are listed below. Do you think I should?
Star Trek:
- #57: The Rift
- #59: The Disinherited (with Michael Jan Friedman and Robert Greenberger)
- #5: Strike Zone
- #10: A Rock and a Hard Place
- #12: Doomsday World (with Michael Jan Friedman, Robert Greenberger, and Carmen Carter)
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Seem to recall enjoying Strike Zone and Rock and a Hard Place. If you're a New Frontier fan then Rock is interesting as it sort of has proto-Calhoun type character in it.
The Siege is good but was written very early on in DS9's life and I'm not sure if most of the plot in it is even reconcilable with what happened in the show.
The Siege is good but was written very early on in DS9's life and I'm not sure if most of the plot in it is even reconcilable with what happened in the show.
A
Amaris
Guest
"A Rock and a Hard Place" was a really fun read.
Sad, but true.
I remember being so blown away by Imzadi. But it does not hold up fifteen years later. Even Vendetta, which was pretty awesome, seems like kind of a kiddie Star Trek book.
The guy is a comics writer. It shows. Not everyone can be Alan Moore.
I might've said this upthread or elsewhere, but in spite of all my gripes with PAD, there are a few areas that fall perfectly into his wheelhouse, most notably Q. Whereas his standard approach is afflicted with an incurable case of the cutes, when it comes to writing Q, this tendency actually becomes an advantage, because that is just what that character demands.
And I'm rather surprised that while the production team was trying to figure out some way to translate "Q-In-Law" into script form that it never seemed to occur to anyone that while it was an interesting TNG story, it would've kicked ass as a DS9 story, with very few changes other than Sisko being the one having to officiate a wedding instead of Picard (in fact, it would've made a helluva lot more sense, if it's a Bajoran wedding and it falls under Sisko's role as Emissary; Picard having to officiate an alien wedding never made much logical sense).
And I'm rather surprised that while the production team was trying to figure out some way to translate "Q-In-Law" into script form that it never seemed to occur to anyone that while it was an interesting TNG story, it would've kicked ass as a DS9 story, with very few changes other than Sisko being the one having to officiate a wedding instead of Picard (in fact, it would've made a helluva lot more sense, if it's a Bajoran wedding and it falls under Sisko's role as Emissary; Picard having to officiate an alien wedding never made much logical sense).
zombie thread!!!
I'm another one who enjoyed Siege. Second DS9 book I ever bought and one of the few that I still have around the house.
I'm not sure what the comics writer crack is all about, but PAD does entertaining stories. "Fun" stories doesn't mean that their kiddie. Why would anyone various Star Trek series that all "felt" the same in tone despite focusing on very different characters?
Gracias
I would tend to agree with you that does good stories. Q-Squared is a fave of mine. Q-in-Law was fun too.
However, the collaboration with John DeLancie on I, Q was not a great work at all. I chalk that up to the DeLancie side of the equation.
However, the collaboration with John DeLancie on I, Q was not a great work at all. I chalk that up to the DeLancie side of the equation.
Wow. I love how quickly these threads can grow and how for the most part everyone stays civil. There's been a lot posted so I'm just going to make broad comments, not really quoting any one particular post.
Peter David=William Shatner?
Sorry, but no. And I'll tell you why. Respect. Here's the thing, I tried the "Shatnerverse" novels because they honestly did sound interesting. Do you know what I found? Pages and pages of Kirk being humble, and brilliant, and aware, and EVERYBODY else being mean, and cranky, and not listening to Kirk just because. Everyone came across out of character from Sulu to Spock to Picard and beyond all so Kirk can be made to look even better. And I quickly found it very very tiresome.
Peter David on the other hand because he does not have his ego tied to a particular character doesn't feel the need to shit all over all the rest just to make one look good.
The Incredible Hulk=Me!
Others may have come up with the child abuse back story but I feel that PAD really ran with it and made it one of the most distinctive parts of the Hulk mythos. While I was not abused (Well aside from having to endure my father's love for leisure suits continuing well into the 90's) I did have some serious rage control issues. At the same time I'm kind of soft spoken, and growing up was very Banner like. So reading Banner's fictional struggles with his more primal impulses felt like I was reading a fantastic representation of my own life. When PAD left Hulk so did I and although I've checked in from time to time I've never truly come back.
PAD and Others Get Star Trek
Okay, what I'm about to say is going to probably rub some people the wrong way. Gene Roddenberry at the end of his life did not really seem to truly understand Star Trek. He had so fallen in love with his high minded philosophy that he tried to remove what truly made the idea behind Trek great.
We are always trying to be better.
Now I know that some will claim that, that was still there under GR but it wasn't because he wanted by TNG for all the humans to be "Perfect".
Well guess what, perfect is boring, perfect is off putting, and perfect does not reach.
The moments I cherish in Trek in all forms is when a character does wrong, realizes they did wrong and strive to make amends and to do better next time.
One of the best moments from TOS season one (and I don't remember which episode) is when during a tense situation Kirk yells at Uhura. And then later after he's calmed down, he goes to her and apologizes. No rationalization, no excuses, just "I'm sorry". Now how's that for a message? No one is too big or too important to say "I'm sorry." That to me is what Trek is about. Not about being so goddamn enlightened that we never ever ever have any problems with each other.
That is why I love PAD's work and why I love the current direction of Treklit, because it's about striving to be better and to be more, it's about the journey, not the destination.
Calling Quentin Stone a Proto-Calhoun...
Does a massive disservice to one of the best and most original characters in all of Treklit. Now don't get me wrong, there are indeed similarities between Mac and Stone, and I love Calhoun a lot but Calhoun comes at things with his past as a warlord and "barbarian" informing his actions. So his tendency to use blunter solutions at times is not really that surprising. Stone on the other hand...
...has a very different background and in some ways a more interesting one.
Cosmic Date Rape
Ohkay, anyone who has that much problem with this storyline I have to wonder tongue only partly in cheek, have you ever actually seen Star Trek? I mean a huge part of the show (and I'm using that in the broadest sense to mean all series and all media) is taking today's problems, and giving them a sci fi gloss. War, racism, terrorism, sexism, slavery, the list goes on and on. So why should Date Rape be off the table?
It shouldn't. Nothing should be taboo for Trek to explore.
Before Dishonor
I will confess it is neither my favorite PAD novel, nor my favorite TNG relaunch novel. But I did appreciate it as managing to do something different with the Borg, and as another poster said it did put a pin in Janeway's arrogance.
Anyway ultimately I look forward to anything PAD does and am looking forward to where he takes the NF novels next.
Peter David=William Shatner?
Sorry, but no. And I'll tell you why. Respect. Here's the thing, I tried the "Shatnerverse" novels because they honestly did sound interesting. Do you know what I found? Pages and pages of Kirk being humble, and brilliant, and aware, and EVERYBODY else being mean, and cranky, and not listening to Kirk just because. Everyone came across out of character from Sulu to Spock to Picard and beyond all so Kirk can be made to look even better. And I quickly found it very very tiresome.
Peter David on the other hand because he does not have his ego tied to a particular character doesn't feel the need to shit all over all the rest just to make one look good.
The Incredible Hulk=Me!
Others may have come up with the child abuse back story but I feel that PAD really ran with it and made it one of the most distinctive parts of the Hulk mythos. While I was not abused (Well aside from having to endure my father's love for leisure suits continuing well into the 90's) I did have some serious rage control issues. At the same time I'm kind of soft spoken, and growing up was very Banner like. So reading Banner's fictional struggles with his more primal impulses felt like I was reading a fantastic representation of my own life. When PAD left Hulk so did I and although I've checked in from time to time I've never truly come back.
PAD and Others Get Star Trek
Okay, what I'm about to say is going to probably rub some people the wrong way. Gene Roddenberry at the end of his life did not really seem to truly understand Star Trek. He had so fallen in love with his high minded philosophy that he tried to remove what truly made the idea behind Trek great.
We are always trying to be better.
Now I know that some will claim that, that was still there under GR but it wasn't because he wanted by TNG for all the humans to be "Perfect".
Well guess what, perfect is boring, perfect is off putting, and perfect does not reach.
The moments I cherish in Trek in all forms is when a character does wrong, realizes they did wrong and strive to make amends and to do better next time.
One of the best moments from TOS season one (and I don't remember which episode) is when during a tense situation Kirk yells at Uhura. And then later after he's calmed down, he goes to her and apologizes. No rationalization, no excuses, just "I'm sorry". Now how's that for a message? No one is too big or too important to say "I'm sorry." That to me is what Trek is about. Not about being so goddamn enlightened that we never ever ever have any problems with each other.
That is why I love PAD's work and why I love the current direction of Treklit, because it's about striving to be better and to be more, it's about the journey, not the destination.
Calling Quentin Stone a Proto-Calhoun...
Does a massive disservice to one of the best and most original characters in all of Treklit. Now don't get me wrong, there are indeed similarities between Mac and Stone, and I love Calhoun a lot but Calhoun comes at things with his past as a warlord and "barbarian" informing his actions. So his tendency to use blunter solutions at times is not really that surprising. Stone on the other hand...
...was a model Starfleet officer. And then he had to stand by and watch as people were massacred, because if he acted he would be breaking the Prime Directive. After that he decided that he could not live with standing by and letting people be destroyed just because of a rule.
Cosmic Date Rape
Ohkay, anyone who has that much problem with this storyline I have to wonder tongue only partly in cheek, have you ever actually seen Star Trek? I mean a huge part of the show (and I'm using that in the broadest sense to mean all series and all media) is taking today's problems, and giving them a sci fi gloss. War, racism, terrorism, sexism, slavery, the list goes on and on. So why should Date Rape be off the table?
It shouldn't. Nothing should be taboo for Trek to explore.
Before Dishonor
I will confess it is neither my favorite PAD novel, nor my favorite TNG relaunch novel. But I did appreciate it as managing to do something different with the Borg, and as another poster said it did put a pin in Janeway's arrogance.
Anyway ultimately I look forward to anything PAD does and am looking forward to where he takes the NF novels next.
