Peter Capaldi continues to show how awesome he is
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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McGann only appeared in the TV movie, which IIRC was only shown on terrestrial tv once or twice when first made, and, of course, Night of the Doctor, which hardly compared with the success of the new TV series. He's probably still best known for the likes of Withnail and I and The Monocled Mutineer.
We'll, having a female Doctor makes as much sense as having a black Johnny Storm (Human Torch).
Not quite analogous. One is an in-story change in a character who can canonically undergo physical transformations and whose species has been established to be capable of sex change. The other is a from-scratch reboot/alternative version of a series continuity in which certain parameters about the characters are changed from the word go.
Still, you're right in that they're both things that there's no legitimate story reason for not doing. Either way it's completely valid -- in the former case because it's been explicitly established as possible within the universe, in the latter because it's starting the universe over from scratch.
I'm siding with the "not necessary" crowd on this female Doctor debate.
I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that there are lots of girls out there desperate for a female Doctor...however, they're apparently not desperate enough to actually do anything about it, like, say, stop watching Doctor Who until the female regeneration actually happens.
Think about it. The first seven Men to play the role managed to turn it into an iconic character over the course of three decades without somebody jumping up and saying "make him a woman now!" The last three Men to play the role have spent the last decade and change tripling the role's popularity and iconic status.
And in all that, no boycotts, no pickets, no who fans burning bras at the BBC demanding a woman Doctor or find other viewers, nothing that would give any indication that the producers will suffer any consequences for continuing to cast Men in the role.
So they're going to continue casting Men.
They don't need to do anything else.
Deal with it.
I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that there are lots of girls out there desperate for a female Doctor...however, they're apparently not desperate enough to actually do anything about it, like, say, stop watching Doctor Who until the female regeneration actually happens.
Think about it. The first seven Men to play the role managed to turn it into an iconic character over the course of three decades without somebody jumping up and saying "make him a woman now!" The last three Men to play the role have spent the last decade and change tripling the role's popularity and iconic status.
And in all that, no boycotts, no pickets, no who fans burning bras at the BBC demanding a woman Doctor or find other viewers, nothing that would give any indication that the producers will suffer any consequences for continuing to cast Men in the role.
So they're going to continue casting Men.
They don't need to do anything else.
Deal with it.
^You just don't get it.
It's not about whether the Doctor is a man or a woman. It's about not caring whether the Doctor is a man or a woman, and casting only on the basis of who's best for the role. Casting the Doctor means looking for a gifted, charismatic performer who dominates the screen and brings enormous personality to a role. Surely there are plenty of female actors who can do that, and how do we know we aren't missing out on some brilliant Doctors by considering only half the available talent pool?
Imposing limits is a failure of imagination. The reason Doctor Who has been so popular and lasted so long is because of its unfettered imagination, its refusal to be bound by the limits of the ordinary. The very fact that it constantly changes the portrayer and the entire persona of its lead actor, that it's made recasting and reinventing its hero an integral part of its very identity, should prove how utterly wrongheaded it is to insist that this role, out of all the roles in television, should be permanently constrained within a rigid set of definitions. It's an affront to the very things that have made the show so special -- to its fearlessness, its flexibility, its gleeful disregard for the ordinary and conventional.
All you people who look at the Doctor and see only "Male" -- you're just seeing the outside. And Doctor Who fans should know how small that truly is.
It's not about whether the Doctor is a man or a woman. It's about not caring whether the Doctor is a man or a woman, and casting only on the basis of who's best for the role. Casting the Doctor means looking for a gifted, charismatic performer who dominates the screen and brings enormous personality to a role. Surely there are plenty of female actors who can do that, and how do we know we aren't missing out on some brilliant Doctors by considering only half the available talent pool?
Imposing limits is a failure of imagination. The reason Doctor Who has been so popular and lasted so long is because of its unfettered imagination, its refusal to be bound by the limits of the ordinary. The very fact that it constantly changes the portrayer and the entire persona of its lead actor, that it's made recasting and reinventing its hero an integral part of its very identity, should prove how utterly wrongheaded it is to insist that this role, out of all the roles in television, should be permanently constrained within a rigid set of definitions. It's an affront to the very things that have made the show so special -- to its fearlessness, its flexibility, its gleeful disregard for the ordinary and conventional.
All you people who look at the Doctor and see only "Male" -- you're just seeing the outside. And Doctor Who fans should know how small that truly is.
why should i have to stop watching something, boycott it for something that is already totally viable within-canon to happen?
thats the sort of attitude that thinks that racism being unacceptable is just there to infringe on your right to call someone the n word.
what it boils down to is, ''i don't want the doctor to be a woman because it would cause me momentary awkwardness due to it not aligning with my world view''
so maybe you and kirk5555 should go compare your fedoras.
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I don't wear hats, but fedoras are cool. Using them as an example of crazy people/a-holes is unfair to the hat type, and I'm not quite sure where it came from, although I've heard it before.
Also, keep staying on that low road, childish insults are truly the answer to everything
You've basically called me racist, for something that has nothing to do with race, just because you disagree with me. That is probably the most insulting thing I've had said to me on this forum, and I've had a lot of things said about me on this forum. I won't even comment on the female Doctor in reference to your post. You're obviously not someone who I want to interact with, so have fun spouting random insulting comparisons at people. I'll stick to responding to people who at least make actual points and post without personal attacks.
That doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't matter how talented a female actor is, The Doctor is a male role. Guys don't audition for Wonder Woman, Storm, Invisible Woman, and the various companies wouldn't allow them too. By the same token, a woman probably wasn't auditioned for the role of Robocop in the reboot, or Max in the upcoming Mad Max reboot.
The Doctor may switch actors, but he has some consistencies. Some probably aren't needed (like race or nationality), but gender is generally a static condition for characters. Just because something is possible doesn't mean its a good idea. Doctor Who is about a guy who travels around helping people in his police box. His gender is just as static as anyone's. At this point, the only reason you've seem to have stated for a female Doctor is just "because". I don't count "just because" as a reason to throw away 50 years of history.
A female Doctor would not be The Doctor. Its a totally different dynamic and character. You might as well be championing the cause of turning The Doctor into a Rutan. It would make about as much sense. It would still not be The Doctor, but at least it might be kind of funny. A gender change is just a reboot without them having the courage to erase The Doctor's history. A female Doctor would not be the same Doctor we've seen, she'd just have the name. The Doctor as a character is not compatible with a gender change, even if its technically possible. To use another shapechanger as an example Odo could have probably looked more feminine if he wanted to (like the female Changelings form), but I don't recall that episode of DS9, because even as a shape shifter, he was a male.
To me, while Timelords can change gender, its probably down to the individual timelord. Some aren't limited to one gender, and that's fine, but considering the fact that we've never seen that and only heard of it once, its probably rare and uncommon. I'd say that, after probably close to 2000 years and more than a full set of regenerations, The Doctor as a character has his gender locked in. So, to just randomly change gender would be out of character, and just not be the same character anymore. I'd watch a female Timelord show, but it doesn't fit with The Doctor in universe, and its a stupid, pointless idea from a real world perspective. Unless there is literally no male actors left, I don't see any reason for The Doctor to be played by a woman. Just like how the greatest male actor couldn't play Wonder Woman, the best female actor would still not be The Doctor.
I get it just fine. I just don't have the same goals as you do.
Talk about "not caring." The answer is simple. TV people in any country tend to gravitate to what works, over and over, and what has worked for The Doctor since the frigging early sixties is some guy "careering around space in a police box," and until that set up stops working, it will be a guy doing the careering.
So the important point is that TPTB don't care if they leave out half the potential actor pool, and they're the ones that have to, canon possibility or not.
It's not a failure of my imagination. I don't cast Doctor who. I just watch it.
But you're forgetting that most of that fearlessness and flexibility has come from changing the things surrounding the doctor, the settings, the companions and the villains, and that because of all the personality changes you've gotten enough differences between twelve portrayals of the main character that changing the gender would simply have been redundant.
And all you people trying to browbeat us into changing our mindsets on the subject are completely missing your target. Try and convince SM and company that a female doctor needs consideration.
As long as male doctors maintain the show's popularity, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it...
Because it will never happen just because it can happen. That's wishful thinking. It will only happen when those with the authority to make it hapen choose to do so, and they'll never make that choice unless not making it hurts them.
And how has unacceptable racism - or sexism, or any kind of -ism - been defeated time and again around the world? By boycott and protest, the very things you just poo-poohed a line ago...
Or, "the doctor doesn't need to be a woman in order for me to enjoy Doctor Who, and I'm not going to put on a hair-suit and flagellate myself just because my opinion is considered regressive."
Better to wear a fedora and be considered old-fashioned, then desperately want something but do nothing to get it...and be considered hypocritical and lazy.
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Something occurred to me. Some scenes in Deep Breath feel almost as if it was struggling with the fact that the new Doctor is not a woman.
I am in the minority that wasn't particularly bothered by Clara's reaction to the Doctor – as it has been said in the other thread, it's like seeing death for the first time – nothing can prepare you for that. But I get what everyone is saying, there were times where it really felt like she acted more surprised than she should be and felt a little bit overreacting. Not being in her shoes, I was slightly confused by it a couple of times.
But if you substituted Capaldi for a female Doctor, and watched the entire episode imagining it with a woman, everything gets a totally new perspective.
- Clara is anxious that something went wrong with the regeneration? Well, duh, nobody told her that time lords can switch genders, of course she'd think that.
- Vastra and Jenny get told that this is the Doctor? Don't tell me how open-minded they are, I want to see their faces. I am pretty sure Jenny wouldn't like Vastra's.
- The uncalled for babble about the end of a non-existent girlfriend/boyfriend thing? Suddenly much more understandable.
- Clara asking Jenny how would she feel if Vastra changed into a man? Priceless. (And cruel really – I would feel for Jenny.)
- The Doctor telling the homeless man "I think I am a woman"? No, I wanna see that.
- The phonecall. Nuff said.
And most of the all, the Doctor's girlfriend would have one more reason to be upset. Sounds awesome.
But if you substituted Capaldi for a female Doctor, and watched the entire episode imagining it with a woman, everything gets a totally new perspective.
- Clara is anxious that something went wrong with the regeneration? Well, duh, nobody told her that time lords can switch genders, of course she'd think that.
- Vastra and Jenny get told that this is the Doctor? Don't tell me how open-minded they are, I want to see their faces. I am pretty sure Jenny wouldn't like Vastra's.
- The uncalled for babble about the end of a non-existent girlfriend/boyfriend thing? Suddenly much more understandable.
- Clara asking Jenny how would she feel if Vastra changed into a man? Priceless. (And cruel really – I would feel for Jenny.)
- The Doctor telling the homeless man "I think I am a woman"? No, I wanna see that.
- The phonecall. Nuff said.
And most of the all, the Doctor's girlfriend would have one more reason to be upset. Sounds awesome.
I've not said Tennant is a jobless vargrant, he's a married father of three and finally after five yerars he's now as busy as he was when he was the Doctor. It'd be nice if being a household name got good work, but really that's what agents are for, but getting work as an actor kind means being more than a household name.
I have tried to keep up with this thread but forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but if people are clamoring for a female time-lord, we already had one, portrayed by two actresses:
Romana
She was a pretty cool character, and if they want to do something interesting, they should bring her back as a future companion in a new regeneration.
They could even have her spin off her own series just like they did with the Sarah Jane Adventures.
Romana
She was a pretty cool character, and if they want to do something interesting, they should bring her back as a future companion in a new regeneration.
They could even have her spin off her own series just like they did with the Sarah Jane Adventures.
But "a Time Lord" is one thing -- "the Doctor" is another. Being relegated to sidekicks does not constitute equal representation. Women have spent thousands of years being relegated to sidekicks.
I can't see how a female Doctor could overcome the male-in-female-body stigma, but if they find a way to make it work, why not? I don't think it's as crucial as some people make it out to be, though.
One could also say that the interplay of two time-lords would be more interesting than a typical companion. Since the audience (even the new audience brought in by the new show) is more adept at the lore, the need for companions asking Watsonesque questions isn't as necessary.
Not only that, but the show has always shied away from giving The Doctor a fully unrestrained love-interest. So you could have sort of an "Indiana reunites with Marion" aspect to play with.
I don't get this 'after five years' bullshit. He's been busy since he left Who! Do you honestly think a pre Who Tennant would have got the Fright Night gig? Or been making US pilots? Who raised his profile a lot. That Rex is Not My Lawyer didn't get picked up isn't the fault of Tennant being typecast as Who, it's cos it was a naff idea. As for Fright Night, I think that failed for reasons other than Tennant being typecast Doctor Who (though I actually quite enjoyed it).
We also have no idea how many other avenues Tennant might have turned down in recent years purely on the basis that he wanted to stay in the UK with his new family.
Before Who Tennant was a vaguely well known actor (frankly his bit part in Harry Potter was the only thing I'd seen him in before Who) after Who he's a household name who has worked consistently for the BBC, ITV, in films, doing voiceover work and in theatre.
So he hasn't cracked America, so what? I could name any number of Brit actors who've tried and failed to crack America and not a one of them was Doctor Who.
Are you saying people can be actors of standing with real careers outside America? In spite of America, In fact?
And he's only 43. He has many years ahead of him where he can play the bad guy in American movies.
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