Personal "Deal Breakers" for watching Fan Productions

[Matthew Raymond]

The recent Axanar settlement has me curious about the following question: What are your own personal "deal breakers" that would prevent you from watching a fan film if you knew about them?

Do you have strict moral principles about how a film is made and won't watch it at all if it violates them? Will you basically watch anything so long as your friends say it's good? Do you have a specific, peculiar hang-up that would prevent you from watching a film?

 

[Philip Guyott]

I have been wrestling with myself recently as to whether I should watch Axanar when or if it comes out.

I am a fan of Star Trek fan productions and have sat through some complete garbage over the years. There has also been a lot of good productions. The big thing for me is the attitude behind those making the films. For example, do they respect CBS/Paramount and other fan film producers. However I am not a film maker and it is not my job to police fan films, therefore I would still watch a new production even if I were aware that it violated the CBS guidelines, but I would not be willing to support them with donations, nor would I necessarily feel sorry for them if they got sued. I know that may sound harsh, however in my view CBS has been more then accommodating to fan films and they have a right to protect their IP. Furthermore they risk provoking CBS to either make the guidelines more restrictive or to simply ban fan films altogether.

I have supported Pacific 201 recently on the basis that they have promised that their production will be in full compliance with the guidelines.

 

[mos6507]

They're not going to make money from views one way or the other so I don't really see any reason to boycott. Of course, watching it to satisfy your curiosity != actually enjoying it.

 

[Philip Guyott]

They're not going to make money from views one way or the other so I don't really see any reason to boycott. Of course, watching it to satisfy your curiosity != actually enjoying it.

So what you are suggesting, if I understand you correctly, is that it is OK for me to watch it as long as I make sure that I don't enjoy it! Therefore I promise that I will remind myself beforehand how Axanar threw all the other fan productions under the bus.

However, would it make me a bad person if I were secretly looking forward to seeing it?

At the end of the day I was stupid enough to give Peters my money ...
...therefore I kind of feel that I am owed what was promised.
I just wish that it had not come at such a high price to the fan film community.

 

[BillJ]

So what you are suggesting, if I understand you correctly, is that it is OK for me to watch it as long as I make sure that I don't enjoy it! Therefore I promise that I will remind myself beforehand how Axanar threw all the other fan productions under the bus.

I think Axanar is a special bird. Peters did so many illegal things and treated people like shit. I'd have a hard time watching anything he produces at this point.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

(Quick note: This thread was not intended to be exclusively about Axanar, so if you plan not to watch or didn't watch a fan film that is not Axanar, please feel free to tell us why.)

@Phillip, I didn't contribute to Axanar, mostly because I just missed the bus on that one, so I don't have the whole "they have my money" motivation. My attitude is that if there is an Axanar film that comes out, I'll probably watch it. After all, there's already been a settlement, and if they get their act together enough to actually finish a film, people will at least get some of their money's worth. Not that it would take a lot of convincing to get me not to watch though. If I had a friend who had contributed, felt cheated, and asked me not to watch, I probably wouldn't.

How do you feel about films that took donations before the guidelines came out and now can't both deliver the content they promised and meet the guidelines at the same time? Should they get a pass so long as their future films meet the guidelines, or should they be held to the guidelines anyway? Seems like there are a number of films that started production before the guidelines came into effect that would have difficulty meeting them. Do these film makers have a greater obligation to give fans their money's worth, or to abide by the guidelines? Should they be expected to stop production and give whatever money they have left back to the fans? Should they conform to the guidelines and hope their contributers understand? Should they release what they promised their contributors while pledging to follow the guidelines in future projects?

Or do you just not care, and you're going to watch anyways, but you'll buy some Star Trek merch to assuage your guilt?

 

[Firebird]

I think Axanar is a special bird. Peters did so many illegal things and treated people like shit. I'd have a hard time watching anything he produces at this point.

Agreed. I couldn't even "hate watch" Axanar, because it would still give another view to the final product, which only gives Alec what he wants - attention. I'll be happy to sit it out.

 

[Firebird]

Seems like there are a number of films that started production before the guidelines came into effect that would have difficulty meeting them. Do these film makers have a greater obligation to give fans their money's worth, or to abide by the guidelines? Should they be expected to stop production and give whatever money they have left back to the fans? Should they conform to the guidelines and hope their contributers understand? Should they release what they promised their contributors while pledging to follow the guidelines in future projects?

It's already been said that any fanfilm that was in production when the guidelines came out would be okay to release in the intended form. The guidelines were for new productions.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

It's already been said that any fanfilm that was in production when the guidelines came out would be okay to release in the intended form. The guidelines were for new productions.

Would that include films that were funded but still in preproduction?

 

[Firebird]

Would that include films that were funded but still in preproduction?

I believe so.

 

[BillJ]

I think my dealbreaker is stuff that tries to mimic TOS. At this point, lots of money has gotten spent to play dress up. I'd rather see unique interpretations of Star Trek.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Axanar's business practices are an example of what to do if you want me to have no interest in your project. STC's practices are what you do if you want me to be 100% on board with your project.

 

[Phoenix219]

Yup. It didn't say how far along into production..... all of these earlier projects should be fine.

I'm surprised Axanar accepted the guidelines in their settlement, and didn't push the "we were in production already" part of it harder. XD

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

As I stated in another thread, I stopped watching "The Death of Superman Lives" in it the second Robert Meyer Burnett showed up. I simply deleted it from the DVR and tuned to another program.

 

[Philip Guyott]

(Quick note: This thread was not intended to be exclusively about Axanar, so if you plan not to watch or didn't watch a fan film that is not Axanar, please feel free to tell us why.)

Sure I have stopped watching some fan films in the past because the story or level of production was really hard to sit through. However the reason I brought up Axanar was because it is very rare that I have been in the position of having to decide whether I watch a fan film on moral grounds.

That being said (this is going to be controversial) I did take a strong dislike to one of Potemkin productions a little while ago which showed three Starfleet officers having a threesome in bed and featured a Klingon sex trafficker prostituting an Orion boy.

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I normally consider myself to be liberally minded but for some reason this fan film really got under my skin. When I raised objection people responded to me with comments such as "Sexual 'morality' is purely subjective", which in my worldview is complete BS. Perhaps I am not as liberal as I thought I was, after all I am a servant of "the Great Bird of the Galaxy" . If this were anything else on TV or YouTube I would have simply turned it off without raising objection, but because it was "Star Trek", I held it to a higher standard then perhaps I should of. Maybe that was wrong of me.

However, I want to be clear that 99% of the time I really love the Potemkin productions and always look forward to seeing the next episode. @Potemkin_Prod - Thank You for all your hard work and for what you do for the fans.

I didn't contribute to Axanar, mostly because I just missed the bus on that one, so I don't have the whole "they have my money" motivation.

Money is not my principal motivation, I understood there were risks to crowdfunding beforehand. It is more the attitude of Alec Peters and the way he has treated others is the principal issue for me.

How do you feel about films that took donations before the guidelines came out and now can't both deliver the content they promised and meet the guidelines at the same time?

I don't blame them, I blame Alec Peters. No one in their right mind would risk getting sued and I would not expect them to take that risk. I do however think they have an obligation, at the very least, to keep donors informed and to be honest with fans. This is one of the objections I am having towards the Captain Pike production at the moment. Even if they just said, 'we are on hold at the moment while we assess our options', that would be acceptable to me. But all donors have received so far is either the silent treatment or broken promises.

 

[mos6507]

One of the guidelines that could be used against that Potemkin episode (or the most recent Aurora):

"The fan production must be family friendly and suitable for public presentation. Videos must not include profanity, nudity, obscenity, pornography, depictions of drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or any harmful or illegal activity, or any material that is offensive, fraudulent, defamatory, libelous, disparaging, sexually explicit, threatening, hateful, or any other inappropriate content."​

No matter that Trek itself contains some of these vices in one shape or another. The guidelines are what they are. In most cases they can not claim they are satisfying all the guidelines because the guidelines are such a minefield that it's almost unavoidable to step on one. A lot of this is up to subjective interpretation of the content (like as to what constitutes obscenity).

I am of a mind that the guidelines went way overboard. It's within their rights to set these constraints, but they are stifling, which is why fan productions are crossing lines on the basis of asking for forgiveness rather than permission.

That's not to say every fan-film is going to be met with universal acclaim by fans, but no creative work will ever please everyone all the time.

 

[BillJ]

No matter that Trek itself contains some of these vices in one shape or another.

I think the idea is that if someone is going to take a chance of damaging the brand by going overboard, it should only be done by CBS.

 

[Tosk]

I personally don't care about the behind-the-scenes of a fan film, I'll enjoy it on its own merits or not. Just like with regular movies, I don't boycott.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Bad acting.

 

[Philip Guyott]

So is there anyone here who would refuse to watch a fan film because it was non-compliant with the CBS fan film guidelines?

I certainly would not donate to a fan production under those circumstances, but I probably would still watch it. At the end of the day I am not the one who might get sued. However, is it wrong to encourage such productions by watching it?