Peregrine (Federation attack fighter) size

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Cpt. Kyle Amasov, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. Cpt. Kyle Amasov

    Cpt. Kyle Amasov Commodore Commodore

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    Jul 10, 2001
    Hi all,
    I'm in the process of trying to figure out the size of the attack fighter for a print in scale with the runabout. Most online sources put it at around 25-30 meters as this is allegedly the intended size. Is there any official source for this?
    Especially since the cockpit set was a reuse of the type 15/18 shuttle pod and the window was designed accordingly, I find this highly unlikely. For the type 15 set we have detailed schematics. I scaled the fighter to match the set size and arrived at 13-14 meters. Yet ditl.org seems to be the only prominent source to support this.
     
  2. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commodore Commodore

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    Jun 30, 2009
    I think it's not unlikely that the longer 25-50 figure is taken from the smaller raider (from Preemptive Strike with the rear cargo hold), rather than the cockpit only fighter from The Maquis and by Starfleet during the Dominion War, although it would appear that the longer figure is from the Original Starship Collection which is IIRC generally well regarded and often considered at least semi-canon in absense of primary canon info.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  3. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've found specs on DeviantArt giving the dimensions of:
    Length: 14 meters
    Width: 13.6 meters
    Height: 4.53 meters

    DITL also uses these dimensions.

    That is for the attack fighter we first saw in "The Maquis" then again several times used by Starfleet during the Dominion War.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 26, 2003
    This one is certainly open to interpretation, within limits, and despite the presence of the theoretically scale-establishing feature.

    The comparison shots against runabouts in "The Maquis" would work just fine with both the higher and lower figures, but the lower ones, with L=14-15m, are the better match for the window and also allow the craft to fit inside shuttlebays with greater ease (assuming wing folding at the blatant seams). Say, a 14m craft could fly through the bow openings of an Akira before spreading its wings, for those who wish to treat that starship as capable of carrying the fighters as per some backstage musings.

    As for terminology, the Peregrine (unseen in "Heart of Stone") was identified as a one-pilot courier, a somewhat unlikely euphemism for a design that would be bristling with fixed armaments in Starfleet use. So I'd personally use that name only for the smaller version of the Maquis raider, the one with the Alien Shuttlecraft Cockpit Set and triangular windows - this one would have the internal volume for couriering more than a stack of memory cards, and would better match the "civilian" designation.

    This unfortunately leaves the Attack Fighter nameless. But perhaps fittingly so, considering how expendable Starfleet considers the type.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Commodore Commodore

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    "The Maquis" version seemed strangely large compared to the Dominion War variants we saw.
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 26, 2003
    It's not as if we ever got a proper side-by-side with the runabouts, though. And in most shots, the attack fighters are on the foreground for understandable reasons, perhaps exaggerating our perception of the size.

    We did get other, indirect comparisons, though: the fighters outgun the runabouts about 3:2 (after the Maquis upgunning?) as per the balance of the fight, and can outrun them at warp (as per the fact that Hudson is able to escape, without mention of stealth or other such evasion). The writing thus doesn't require inferiority in any respect, and the VFX intent may well have been for these craft to be larger than the runabouts, which would then be the underdogs even at 3:2. It's just that the VFX outcome doesn't require us to believe in any such intent.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. Dr. Kravaal

    Dr. Kravaal Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I could see one Ju’day Maquis ship with two of the smaller craft off each wing—and four of the tiny trainer craft Wesley got into trouble with...

    An attack group like that could fly above Star Fleet HQ, or in gas giants.
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 26, 2003
    I wonder if the trainers of "First Duty" aren't the preceding generation of Attack Fighters, considering the similar shape and apparent dimensions. And conversely if the current Attack Fighters won't some day become trainers, just as in that "erroneous" image in the old Encyclopedia.

    Whether the two sizes of the other Maquis design ever served in Starfleet, or did any Attacking, is debatable. But at least we saw the bridge interior of the larger version in "Caretaker", and it had LCARS displays in the older, E-C era colors. For whatever that's worth. The bigger of these Maquis ships is essentially the Federation's Bird of Prey, with the wings, the wingtip guns, the interior volume and so forth. What would Starfleet do with a Bird of Prey? Planetary assault sorties? Small scale surface surveys? Colonial logistics? Search and rescue?

    As for the Attack Fighters, suggestively they are only ever either seen in Attack duties by the current air combat definition, that is, trying to strike at surface targets. Or at "surface vessels", that is, starships, but there explicit mention is made that this is not what the craft were designed to do and that they will not fare well. I wonder if Starfleet has separate small craft for space fighting? Ones without wings, say?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    Looks like the VFX were going for 200 feet (2400 inches) around the time of the Season 6 opener, but Larry Nemecek then appended 95 and 100 feet (95 to 100 feet?) based on that interview with Gary Hutzel. There is also the camera test model at 1/5.5 the length of the Defiant, which works out to just about 100 feet given the 560-foot Defiant consistently portrayed in VFX charts and notes (if not prominently in practice).
     
  10. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Captain Captain

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    I think the 100 foot (~30m) value fits the Type 15 shuttlepod cockpit reuse scaling pretty well, as both ships use that cockpit. That also puts it pretty close to Data's Scout in Insurrection.
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 26, 2003
    Yup; it's just that anything down to 15m also fits, since the pod interior is not shown from particularly informative angles, and we e.g. can't tell whether the windshield really is "the same size" in-universe. Which is a bit of a pity, really, but obviously saves on VFX expenses.

    The chief advantage of the smaller size is the ability to easily fit into most shuttlebays, with the putative wing-fold (which also facilitates belly landings). The chief disadvantage is possible contrast with what was shown, but the fighters never get good comparison shots in any of their appearances, so the "house scale" isn't a pressing argument.

    Timo Saloniemi