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People's attitudes towards intellectual ability

Sometimes its a case of the person not being interested in the grammar, but in the thought they're trying to communicate.

There is that old joke of a mathematics professor, who writes the number 5 on the board while saying 6, but is actually thinking and meaning 7. Then someone in the class points out that the correct figure is in fact 8.

So then the professor realises his mistake, laughs at what he's done, rubs it out, and writes 5 on the board, but says 6.

Nobody dare correct him the second time. :lol:

The funny thing is, it does happen. I had a couple of professors who would do this sort of thing.
 
Well, grammar and diction are quite a bit like the use of clothes. One can dress in a very proper manner, and take pride in doing so, but such attire (these days) isn't appropriate for all settings. I, for example, do not wear a suit to go to the movies. I could, but I don't.

Posting in a forum is more akin to a casual/conversational environment, and so it really isn't appropriate to attempt to hold anyone to such high standards. This is, after all, a recreational activity.

For my part, having suffered with learning disorders all my life (and a family history of dyslexia), I'm happy to even complete a post. And I'm pleasantly surprised if anyone comprehends what it was that I was attempting to say.

On the topic at hand, I've had the fortunate opportunity to know some of the most intelligent people our world has had to offer. They are (generally) very nice and have normally gone out of their way to provide me with help when I was in need.

I don't know why people would hold anything against the gifted, unless those with gifts are holding those abilities over everyone else. I've been lucky enough not to have run across many people like that... at least not anyone who was truly gifted who acted in such a manner.

I have a hard time believing you grew up with learning disability because you always come across as a very smart and articulate person.

Back to the OP: I have a fairly high IQ read everything I can get my hands on and rarely had trouble understanding things in school. I used to be a cocky, arrogant, know it all. I'd like to think I've grown past that but I know I still have my moments at times.

One of the reasons "smart" people come across poorly is because their IQ is as far or farther ahead of an average persons as an average persons is ahead of a mentally challenged person. It's not right because we are all human and should treat others with respect.
 
I think it depends on what you truely mean by intellectual ability.

Do you believe that those with academic qualificatins coming out of their ears are intellectual? If so you are partly right, however academic ability only truely shows that you have a good memory recall.

Do you believe that those who are not academically bright are intellectual? Yes they can be, due to bad education (as in my case), and lack of proper mentorship, a lot of those who are extremely intelligent do not have an ounce of academic qualification.

Do those who are bright but not academically bright get trod on? You betcha. Those with qualifications, who I have come across, positively look down on and treat those without them as thick and stupid.


Where do I get my personal view from? I had an extremely bad education, nothings changed in the Uk then, only to be told at the age of 25 that I was in the top 10 percent of population for intelligence. Still at the age of 30 or so, I was tested again, and found to be in the top 6 percent. Was I treated any better, nope, I was treated worse.

People truely do not like people who are intelligent. They call them egotisitcal, arrogant and know it alls!

If I want information out of anyone, I play major dumb and stupid, and I get the information I need, but if I say I understand etc etc no one wants to help.

If your intelligent in the Uk normal school system Gawd help you, your very lucky if you make it into private school education, as only then would you come close to reaching your true potential.
 
I have a hard time believing you grew up with learning disability because you always come across as a very smart and articulate person.
I wanted to address the issue of equity in education that a few people have raised, and this statement illustrates very well some of the points I'd like to make.

Some people have lamented some of the changes that have been taking place in education systems over the past 2 to 3 decades, namely the dismissal of tracking systems (or sets or streaming, as some of the posters here are calling them), in favor of a system that "lowers the bar" in an effort to cater to the masses. The appalling statement that "resources should be devoted cultivating the intellectually gifted kids rather than spent on programs to 'close the gaps.'" was even made. People have given personal evidence of how the tracking systems they grew up with worked well enough for them (notice, though, these are individuals who were in the fast tracks, or higher sets), and the truth is that they're right -- the fast track programs do work very well for the kids fortunate enough to be placed in them. The problem is that they work well at the expense of everyone else. Kids in the slower/lower tracks are given fewer opportunities, less differentiation, and usually a poorer quality of education overall; and importantly, when the bar is set low, children rarely fail to stoop to its level. Whether or not you adhere to the Pygmalion effect, it is undeniable that separate cannot be equal.

Now the question becomes, "Should it be equal?" There are a few things to consider when answering this question: First, and most obvious, is the fact that not all people are equal when it comes to intellect or academic capability. Second, is the fact that people have different skill sets (or in the teacherspeak: different intelligences), so that a kid who is a genius in mathematics may be almost completely illiterate, a child who can grasp difficult abstract concepts may struggle with the basics of spelling or 2+2=4, a kid who can do pages upon pages of immaculate algebra may be able to divide 49 by 7, but not understand why 49/7=7 (this is an exceptionally common problem these days as the education system drifts more towards facts and away from knowledge). Children with learning disorders and emotional disorders end up in lower-functioning groups, even when they are perfectly capable academically. Third, and perhaps most importantly when considering the implications of this debate, is the fact that standardized assessments do not work -- they have been proven again and again to be inaccurate and biased, so that (for example) African American males are vastly overrepresented in special education and underrepresented in honors/gifted/fast track programs, as are children from families of lower soceo-economic status. Some people may be content to let the few achieve greatness by squashing the many, I say that the few who will achieve greatness will do so, that does not mean everyone else should be denied the opportunity to try. I know this screams "leftist teacher idealistic philosophy," but you might be surprised at how effective teaching from this philosophy can be, for every child.

The major concern with the discarding of tracks and the implementation of things like Inclusion classes (classes which contain "special ed" and general ed students), is that the bar must be set lower to accomidate slower kids, and therefore the average and especially the gifted kids' educations will suffer. This is a valid concern, but can be addressed very simply, if not easily, by changing the way we teach. Firstly, the bar must be done away with entirely. Prior to the 60's the goal was to "teach to the middle." And if the students were divided into tracks or sets, the teacher taught to the middle of those sets. To allow every student to really get the most out of a lesson, from the slowest to the most gifted, the lesson must be open-ended. It is difficult to explain this concept but easy to illustrate it, so, here is an eample of a math lesson taught to a 3rd grade inclusion class early in the school year. The class had students ranging from the LD and mildly mentally retarded (one student had an IQ in the mid 80's), to the gifted (at least 3 students were reading at or above the 7th grade level), and everything in between, including two boys with Asperger's who were being mainstreamed into general education from a self contained Autism special ed program:

The lesson was algebra. The students were told about the "smallest candy store in New York," that sold only three kinds of candy, chocolate bars for $.25, kisses for $.15, and gum for $.10. On the outside of the store is a sign reading "Only one dollar bills accepted, no change will be made." The children had 40 minutes to figure out how many different combinations of candies they could buy. They were allowed to work in groups for part of the period and individually for another part of the period.
The aim of this lesson was not actually to find the ultimate answer of exactly how many combinations there really are. The math behind that is very complex for an 8 year old. However, the lesson was well-designed, so that the highest functioning kids in the class were well on their way to developing the equations that would allow that: a lesson that teaches the development of algebraic equations to third-graders? Sounds adequately challenging for gifted kids to me! The kids who were more average in math used multiplication and division to solve the problem, again, using different strategies like manipulatives to solve the problem, and therefore generating the functions on their own rather than being simply given formulae to memorize by rote -- a fairly advanced activity. The kids who struggled at math used addition and subtraction, and practiced money counting skills. Every child had the opportunity to rise to the highest level of achievement.

All the students were given equal instruction, all in the same class, and neither was the bar lowered to accommodate slower kids, nor was the lesson inaccessible, leaving kids behind. This is how differentiation works, and how we can do away with tracking and improve the quality of every child's education.

As an important aside, the kids in this class were occasionally grouped by skill level for some lessons. There is nothing wrong with this, as children do have different abilities. However, these groups are flexible and changeable in two important ways, the one being that kids who were in the highest math group, might very well have been in the lowest reading group, and the other being that, unlike in traditional tracking programs, the kids could move easily between the groups, moving up or down as their skills developed or when they needed extra practice.

When this approach is implemented children learn, and they learn well -- better, in fact, than when taught with a traditional approach. In fact, the program I teach is part of a research study investigating these very techniques (and specifically, the integration of art, music, dance, and drama into literacy education), and over the past 7 years our students have consistently and greatly outperformed their peers (with statistical significance) in reading and writing across various curricula and as assessed by several objective and subjective tests. It is a simple answer to the question of equity in education. But as I said before, it's not easy. Most people, including most teachers, were not taught this way themselves, and so don't have the personal experience to draw upon. Teachers are usually not well trained in this kind of teaching either. The biggest hindrance, though, is the legislation and politicization of the educational system as it stands today. As I mentioned before, in an bid to satisfy the tests, the trend in education is toward facts and away from knowledge. The kind of teaching I am describing teaches children to think, rather than to simply do. As it stands, teachers in NYC public schools are expected to spend 90% of the day on reading, writing, and mathematics, and 10% on science, social studies, and art. If we spent 50% of class time on reading, writing, and maths and 50% on science, social studies, and art, we would have a far better educated, and a far more intelligent populace. And, if we turned the trend back toward knowledge, teachers would have the time to teach differentiated lessons like the math lesson I described above.

In summary, there are problems with teaching and learning today, but the solution isn't to turn the clock backwards -- after all, the approaches we are lamenting today were implicated because the system was flawed before: it is only through the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia that we see the system of our childhoods as the height of quality. And as to how this relates to intelligence? I mentioned before that most people have a false idea of intelligence as something innate and immutable. The fact is that, while there are differences in potential for every child, the brain is too complex an organ and intelligence too varied and complex (and nigh indefinable) a concept to accurately judge what the potential and limits of individual children really are. Therefore, creating an educational system based around these preconceived notions of ability is simply not good enough.
 
Personally I feel the way ahead with education is to introduce a few things:

Streaming using the results of the Mulitple Intelligence tests by Howard Gardener and regular IQ along side behavioural tests.

Only when those in education realise that not everyone is academic will they truely provide for the majority of those in their care.

Every school should have a child behaviourist on hand, if they dont already. This person would be to help mentor the children and not act as a councellor.
 
Would you prefer the company of an utter moron who agrees with you on most things (say Sarah Palin for example), or would you rather hang with a smart person you learn from, but who has a tendency to condescend toward you when you proffer your opinions (say certain persons on these boards for example)?
That depends on which gives the best head.
 
Streaming using the results of the Mulitple Intelligence tests by Howard Gardener and regular IQ along side behavioural tests.

I don't think IQ is a particularly good measure of anything. I think it's misleading for it to even have that label.

I do favour the sets/streams system, but my preference is that it's used to help children learn at a rate they are comfortable with. This isn't determined by tests of any kind, but by talking with and observing the child and seeing how they feel about the speed of the lessons they're currently getting.

Preferred learning speed isn't necessarily correlated with how they perform in a test. Some people like to absorb quick, but for whatever reason don't ever test well, even though all that knowledge is in there heads. Put them in a lower set, and they don't learn anything. They get terribly bored and feel that the system has failed them.

On the other hand, some people who test in the top 10% may actually prefer to be in set 2, not set 1, because it matches their learning speed much better. When I was at school this was said by children on several occasions.
 
The lesson was algebra. The students were told about the "smallest candy store in New York," that sold only three kinds of candy, chocolate bars for $.25, kisses for $.15, and gum for $.10. On the outside of the store is a sign reading "Only one dollar bills accepted, no change will be made." The children had 40 minutes to figure out how many different combinations of candies they could buy.
To prove your point about "different intelligences," I have a genius-level IQ and I would have no idea where to even begin with this. :rommie:
 
^We'd give you some play money and counting sticks and you'd be fine. ;)
Only when those in education realise that not everyone is academic will they truely provide for the majority of those in their care.
Spoken by someone who has clearly never worked in schools. Believe me, teachers know that not all kids are academics. That doesn't mean we don't still encourage all kids too learn and think. Learning improves the quality of one's life at any level, and it would be a failed teacher who just gave up on students she didn't deem (or who didn't deem themselves) to be "academic".

Jadzia, you bring up a very good point about testing that I tried to touch on in my, well, megapost. Another example would be a kindergarten student I have. There are these ridiculously redundant literacy tests the kids are going through now. The particular student is on a second grade reading level and first grade writing level. In one of the tests children are shown pictures that represent sentences, and asked, "Which picture has a sentence that starts with ______? (and they are given a letter sound like, "yuh"). They have to respond within 6 seconds. This girl could not only tell you every single sentence correctly, but could go on to write the sentence perfectly, storyboard the pictures, and head to the library to find further reading on the subject -- seriously. But she can't do it in 6 second. It takes her a minute. When she wants to answer a question, it takes her a while to get it out -- that's just the way she is. She tests far lower than her actual ability.

Sets and streams and tracking are fine on the short-term basis when they are fluid and dynamic, and when they don't involve separating the kids into different classes. As I described, grouping kids by ability has it's merits and can be used very well in a more inclusive education setting. I do want to add the disclaimer, however, that my opinions are solely to do with younger children, grades k-5 or 6. I've never worked with high school students, and am not knowledgeable about those grades enough to make any sure statements. I am inclined to look upon things like sets, honors classes, and AP with more acceptance when it come to the upper grades.
 
^We'd give you some play money and counting sticks and you'd be fine. ;)
Only when those in education realise that not everyone is academic will they truely provide for the majority of those in their care.
Spoken by someone who has clearly never worked in schools.

Believe me you would not want me working in schools, because if I did the majority of teachers would be out of a job. Even the Uk team who regularly visit schools to look at teachers and their practices only sacked 40 teachers out of the whole school population of them. It seems to be yet another Bomb-Proof profession.

I personally, would make an awesome teacher, and many have suggested I become one.

I have the very good ability of seeing through the veil that people put around them, to see what lies underneath.
 
The funny thing is; I have a very high IQ (I am a very logical, which makes me very cold sometimes) but I have absolutely no common sense. You tell me not to stick something into a light socket? By God I'm going to stick something into a light socket to figure out why not? I suck on pennies when I get nervous (I clean them off mind you, most of the time). I do things normal humans usually don't because yes, I am bat shit insane. I take that back, I am more than bat shit insane...I drove my sanity off the cliff and all that is left is insanity.

Which is why I have such a high IQ is because I approach things from a different view point and I am very meticulous in my approach. I can run through variables and arrive at a different conclusion each time. It makes it very hard to keep up with me because my brain is working faster than either my typing or my voice, so by the time I am at point C in my mind, my voice is trying to figure out what the hell to say at point A to make it sound reasonable. Same when I type, which is why this is a such a clusterfuck of a post.

Because of this, most people think I am a dumbass or...very...slow. I am not. I just don't have common sense. And I'm proud of that.
 
The funny thing is; I have a very high IQ (I am a very logical, which makes me very cold sometimes) but I have absolutely no common sense. You tell me not to stick something into a light socket? By God I'm going to stick something into a light socket to figure out why not? I suck on pennies when I get nervous (I clean them off mind you, most of the time). I do things normal humans usually don't because yes, I am bat shit insane. I take that back, I am more than bat shit insane...I drove my sanity off the cliff and all that is left is insanity.

Which is why I have such a high IQ is because I approach things from a different view point and I am very meticulous in my approach. I can run through variables and arrive at a different conclusion each time. It makes it very hard to keep up with me because my brain is working faster than either my typing or my voice, so by the time I am at point C in my mind, my voice is trying to figure out what the hell to say at point A to make it sound reasonable. Same when I type, which is why this is a such a clusterfuck of a post.

Because of this, most people think I am a dumbass or...very...slow. I am not. I just don't have common sense. And I'm proud of that.
I have heard this quite a few times that Some people with high IQ s have trouble with common sense.
Someone i use to work with her step brother was a member of mensa yet he could not button up his own shirt.:confused:
 
^We'd give you some play money and counting sticks and you'd be fine. ;)
Only when those in education realise that not everyone is academic will they truely provide for the majority of those in their care.
Spoken by someone who has clearly never worked in schools.

Believe me you would not want me working in schools, because if I did the majority of teachers would be out of a job. Even the Uk team who regularly visit schools to look at teachers and their practices only sacked 40 teachers out of the whole school population of them. It seems to be yet another Bomb-Proof profession.
When are people going to realize that the teachers aren't the problem? The vast majority of teachers whom I've known and worked with have been intelligent, professional, compassionate, and hard working. However, they are put under an immense amount of pressure and not given the resources or freedom they need to rise to the demands. It's like tying a pianist's hands behind his back and complaining about how poorly he plays when he plonks out a tune with his nose.

I'm not saying there aren't a few bad apples, but they are indeed few. A person who blames the teachers for the failings of the school system as it is today simply hasn't got a clue about how the system works.
 
When are people going to realize that the teachers aren't the problem? The vast majority of teachers whom I've known and worked with have been intelligent, professional, compassionate, and hard working. However, they are put under an immense amount of pressure and not given the resources or freedom they need to rise to the demands.

As someone who also currently works in the public sector, though in a different field, I can understand well enough the financial pressures involved. And I do accept that most people generally try to do the best they can.

But the positive traits you outlined do not necessarily mean that with greater resources, they would be able to better deliver the kind of education children would benefit from. It might, it might not.

The key variable is not compassion, hard-working or any of the traits you listed (they're "necessary but not sufficient" factors), but rather whether the model being used is the correct one. That's open for debate, regardless of the personal values of the people involved.

I wanted to address the issue of equity in education that a few people have raised...

Interesting post, and I did read it through.

I think there's a fundamental disagreement between your view of children's abilities (which is very much in sync with what most other teachers would also say) and what the world wants from schools.

Leaving aside political ideologies regarding what education should be for, which is a whole other kettle of fish, I think the following points are pretty much agreed by all:

a) All children have some form of inherent ability to process information and this ability can be improved through education. (one could call the ability to process information, and its capacity to improve through training, "intelligence", in its broadest sense)
b) Not all children have the same inherent abilities.
c) Not all children will improve to the same extent with education.
d) Education should try to help as many children as possible achieve their maximum potential.

Given that basic foundation, and given the reality of finite resources, the disagreement of HOW to educate arises because of disagreements as to the priorities that education should focus on. The obvious - and conflicting - options are:

1) Education's priority should be to ensure that those children with the most inherent ability and most capacity for improvement receive the most input from the system so they can excel.
2) Education's priority should be to ensure that those children with the least inherent ability and least capacity for improvement receive the most input from the system so they are not neglected.

I think most teachers, due to their belief system, which is probably what interested them in the profession in the first place, lean towards number two.

I understand the example you cited for the mathematics class that appears to make them compatible, but it strikes me that the tendency in that example would be for the brightest to not receive the maximal amount of input and that it would be more likely that those least able would receive more input instead. That, I think, would be the natural - whether intended or not - reaction of any human being, I think, teaching in that situation. It would be very hard to give equal time to all, when you see some students visibly struggling. I only teach adults, which is a very different setting, and it certainly isn't the profession I trained in, but even I know that it's extremely difficult not to want to help those struggling with a concept and controlling the pace/structure of a class can be impacted by this.

Sets/streams and competitive testing does NOT necessarily imply lowering the bar for the lower sets. It merely means teaching at a pace more suited for them, while driving the more able students faster. Those in the lower sets should face the same testing standards as those in the higher sets, it's just they'll cover the material more slowly, and therefore some of nuances of the complicated material will not get covered in the way it would be in the higher sets.

I also wanted to address the wider point of testing/etc. I fully agree that standardised testing is highly flawed. The trouble is that standardised testing is exactly what these children will face, both as kids and throughout their lives as adults. That is NOT going to change; if anything it is getting more pervasive, as our societies become more focused on protocols/audit/data collection/governance, etc, etc, etc as a flawed proxy for "proving" a system works... "evidence". The fact that it is nothing of the sort and it operates largely on a "garbage in, garbage out" principle is irrelevant, since the system values it. Bureaucracy is a function of large complex delivery systems (like education).

It is possible to function in the world (and still retain a high standard of living) by ignoring the impact of standardised testing but one has to be any of: a) exceptionally talented, b) exceptionally bohemian, c) exceptionally rich. Essentially, one has to be able to tell the wider pedestrian world to fuck off. Most people are none of the above and cannot do so, and therefore will face having to deal with standardised testing their whole lives, as pointless as it often is. Given this, using it in schools actually makes some sense, since it provides an internally vaguely consistent way of moving people through society, even if it's not externally valid.

Longer post than I meant to write, but your post deserved a long response. I know we probably don't agree on a lot on this issue, but it's an interesting discussion for sure.
 
As someone who also currently works in the public sector, though in a different field, I can understand well enough the financial pressures involved. And I do accept that most people generally try to do the best they can.

But the positive traits you outlined do not necessarily mean that with greater resources, they would be able to better deliver the kind of education children would benefit from. It might, it might not.

The key variable is not compassion, hard-working or any of the traits you listed (they're "necessary but not sufficient" factors), but rather whether the model being used is the correct one. That's open for debate, regardless of the personal values of the people involved.
Actually, I do agree with you here, entirely. I tried to allude to this with my pianist analogy. The model that is currently being applied in most public schools is an incomplete and ineffective one, so that even the best teachers struggle. Unfortunately, people fail to recognize this fact and inevitably blame the teachers for their ineffectiveness. Good evidence of this is charter schools (well, some charter schools, at least), which function under different models and usually have much better results, regardless of the skills and experience of the teachers in employ.

Interesting post, and I did read it through.

I think there's a fundamental disagreement between your view of children's abilities (which is very much in sync with what most other teachers would also say) and what the world wants from schools.

Leaving aside political ideologies regarding what education should be for, which is a whole other kettle of fish, I think the following points are pretty much agreed by all:

a) All children have some form of inherent ability to process information and this ability can be improved through education. (one could call the ability to process information, and its capacity to improve through training, "intelligence", in its broadest sense)
b) Not all children have the same inherent abilities.
c) Not all children will improve to the same extent with education.
d) Education should try to help as many children as possible achieve their maximum potential.

Given that basic foundation, and given the reality of finite resources, the disagreement of HOW to educate arises because of disagreements as to the priorities that education should focus on. The obvious - and conflicting - options are:

1) Education's priority should be to ensure that those children with the most inherent ability and most capacity for improvement receive the most input from the system so they can excel.
2) Education's priority should be to ensure that those children with the least inherent ability and least capacity for improvement receive the most input from the system so they are not neglected.

I think most teachers, due to their belief system, which is probably what interested them in the profession in the first place, lean towards number two.
I agree with you here as well, though I am in the highly idealist camp that believes the two can and should be given equal priority.

I understand the example you cited for the mathematics class that appears to make them compatible, but it strikes me that the tendency in that example would be for the brightest to not receive the maximal amount of input and that it would be more likely that those least able would receive more input instead. That, I think, would be the natural - whether intended or not - reaction of any human being, I think, teaching in that situation. It would be very hard to give equal time to all, when you see some students visibly struggling. I only teach adults, which is a very different setting, and it certainly isn't the profession I trained in, but even I know that it's extremely difficult not to want to help those struggling with a concept and controlling the pace/structure of a class can be impacted by this.
Actually, I realize I left out a vital bit of information that might change how you would perceive the results of the lesson I described, and that is that the lesson was taught in a Team Teaching class, and an exceptionally well-run class at that, with two teachers, a student teacher (me), and a paraprofessional. With 4 adults in the classroom, every child received adequate attention. It was also one of the highest performing classes in one of the highest performing schools in the city.
For the model I've described to work there need to be adequate resources, which, unfortunately, are hard to come by.

Sets/streams and competitive testing does NOT necessarily imply lowering the bar for the lower sets. It merely means teaching at a pace more suited for them, while driving the more able students faster. Those in the lower sets should face the same testing standards as those in the higher sets, it's just they'll cover the material more slowly, and therefore some of nuances of the complicated material will not get covered in the way it would be in the higher sets.
I agree that in theory this is how it should work, but I think that in practice the result of sets and tracking has historically been inequity.

I also wanted to address the wider point of testing/etc. I fully agree that standardised testing is highly flawed. The trouble is that standardised testing is exactly what these children will face, both as kids and throughout their lives as adults. That is NOT going to change; if anything it is getting more pervasive, as our societies become more focused on protocols/audit/data collection/governance, etc, etc, etc as a flawed proxy for "proving" a system works. "Evidence". The fact it is nothing of the sort and it operates largely on a "garbage in, garbage out" principle is irrelevant, since the system values it. Bureaucracy is a function of large complex delivery systems (like education).

It is possible to function in the world (and still retain a high standard of living) by ignoring the impact of standardised testing but one has to be any of: a) exceptionally talented, b) exceptionally bohemian, c) exceptionally rich. Essentially, one has to be able to tell the wider pedestrian world to fuck off. Most people are none of the above and cannot do so, and therefore will face having to deal with standardised testing their whole lives, as pointless as it often is. Given this, using it in schools actually makes some sense, since it provides an internally vaguely consistent way of moving people through society, even if it's not externally valid.
The thing is, education I've described and the use of standardized tests don't have to be mutually exclusive. Children who are educated under a proper inclusion model tend to outperform their peers on standardized tests, even though they are given far less test prep. I think it is a common misconception that such an idealistic model as I've been describing is incompatible with the real world, that it's impractical, when in fact it's extremely practical and effective.

Longer post than I meant to write, but your post deserved a long response. I know we probably don't agree on a lot on this issue, but it's an interesting discussion for sure.
I appreciate the discussion very much!
 
I have a hard time believing you grew up with learning disability because you always come across as a very smart and articulate person.
Thanks. I've worked hard to overcome my shortcomings... or at least not let them show that much.

I wanted to address the issue of equity in education that a few people have raised, and this statement illustrates very well some of the points I'd like to make.

...
My first wife taught elementary school, specifically a combination kindergarten-first-second-third grade classroom. In that environment (where she was responsible for writing the curriculum for all those grade levels) she was able to advance the students in subjects that they excelled in and give more time to the subjects that they might have been having issues with, all without the students feeling out of place with their classmates. It was a private school, so she had more freedom to work with, but the setting seemed successful (the students usually moved on to a public school and were generally ahead of the other students when entering the fourth grade).

For me, I am quite thankful for most of the teachers I've had throughout my life. More often than not they put far more effort into my education than many of the other students around me, and I've always felt like I let them down. Even today when I spend time with one of my professors (who isn't teaching anymore) it is hard not to think about how I haven't lived up to his hopes. :(
 
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