People of Color and the Future

[captainduprix]

I was just wondering...

America elected a black president in 2008. How will that affect the future of how blacks are reflected on TV in general, and speculative fiction specifically?

We already see that, according to SF, society will still be stratified along racial lines (how else can one explain all those white folks in Starfleet, when most of the folks in the world are black or brown?), Hip-Hop and R 'n' B/Soul music will cease to exist somewhere in the near future, and evidently some major calamity will nullify the inevitable emergence of China and India as world powers, since you never see them represented in most SF. But then, what do you expect, since most significant SF has its roots in North America, and most aliens still speak fluent English!!!

Will we see more black folks in SF roles on TV? In the real world, enough whites voted for Mr. Obama to get him into the White House...so doesn't this mean that when it comes to fantasyland, they would probably accept the idea of a black man/ woman as the protagonist of a TV show?

But then, I'm old enough to remember when Roots came out in the late 70s, and how the ratings were so strong. I thought then that this would open the doors for blacks on TV and in the movies. Then a funny thing happened: Reagan got elected and everything reset to the 50s.

So, will there be a backlash against blacks now?

I wonder how those who propose all sorts of silly arguments to explain why there aren't more blacks on TV and the movies already will justify the status quo if there is no change?

 

[philbob]

No offense but what are you talking about? Ive read your thing three times and i dont get what your point is?

Anyone here what Avery Brooks opinion on the recently election is?

 

[Captain Zog]

I disagree with you about the 24th century Trek universe not being racially diverse. I think eventually 'race' as a concept will diminish in significance - as it should. Eventually, people won't be regarded as white people or black people, just as people. Of course, there will always be divisions of some sort in human society. There's no reason to think it will always be along the lines of colour.

As for the depiction of black people in the contemporary media, I think they're a lot more visible that they were 30 or 40 years ago. It's a process of gradual change. Including someone who can't act on the cast list just cos of their race doesn't make much sense either. As for sci-fi, I think it tends to analyse race issues through the medium of human interactions with other species and cultures.

 

[Good Will Riker]

and evidently some major calamity will nullify the inevitable emergence of China and India as world powers, since you never see them represented in most SF. But then, what do you expect, since most significant SF has its roots in North America, and most aliens still speak fluent English!!!

When thinking of race and race relations in the United States, it isn't just as simple as "Black vs. White," but there are other races such as Asian Americans (like myself), Native Americans, Latinos, Middle Easterners, and other ethnicities (Samoan, ethnic whites, etc.)

Perhaps, you may want to read some literary fiction by Sax Rohmer and his "Fu Manchu" novels dealing with the "yellow peril," as well as explore "Flash Gordon" and "Buck Rogers," Shia Khan of "The Shadow," James Bond's "Dr. No.," Khan Noonien Singh from TOS's "Space Seed," and the 1943 "Batman serials" with the character of Dr. Daka.

The villains of most pulp science-fiction were "Asians," and the character of "Fu Manchu" was used as the primary model for all the villains that I have described above and are seen in contemporary films today such as the character of Darth Vader who was modeled after Ming the Merciless in "Flash Gordon" and all the main villains of James Bond novels and James Bond films whose evil schemes of world conquest, machinations, evil lairs, and torcher methods were derived from Sax Rohmer's racist "Fu Manchu" caricature.

No, I myself personally do not like the way Asians have been denigrated throughout the history of western fiction and its pulp science-fiction, so hopefully this trend won't continue in the future.

But, knowing Hollywood, I seriously doubt that.

 

[Lt. Trull]

the future... there will be only one race....

The Race of Tan

 

[Good Will Riker]

the future... there will be only one race....

The Race of Tan

I don't think so...

It must be one arrogant, exclusive, and singularly-minded race then.

 

[T'Baio]

African Americans have the President, now they want science fiction, too? When will it end?

 

[kv1at3485]

In the future you'll have countless clades as people genetically modify themselves and their offspring to better live in different environments, or just to suit their particular aesthetic demands. (Catpeople? Truly rainbow hair with no need for dye? Webbed feet? People will go for it, and the imagination will be the limit...)

And that's before considering the cultural diversification this will encourage.

You'll never see this sort of thing in tech fantasy, though, let alone Star Trek. Frankly, people in Star Trek wouldn't know diversity if it hit them in the ass.

 

[Good Will Riker]

African Americans have the President, now they want science fiction, too? When will it end?

You got that backwards.

They first grabbed science-fiction: Commander (later Captain) Benajamin L. Sisko

Then, it expanded to other genre shows: "24's" President David Palmer

Finally, the US presidency: Barack Hussein Obama II

 

[Garth Rockett]

But then, I'm old enough to remember when Roots came out in the late 70s, and how the ratings were so strong. I thought then that this would open the doors for blacks on TV and in the movies. Then a funny thing happened: Reagan got elected and everything reset to the 50s.

I won't deny that things could have been better for non-whites on television and the movies from the 70's forward, but you can't deny progress was made during the 1980's. After all, it was while Reagan was in office that The Cosby Show started a 5 year run as the top-rated show in America (one of only two shows to achieve that feat), and its spinoff A Different World was a top 5 show during the last few years of the 1980's. Miami Vice might be considered the quintessential 80's police drama, and it had a racially diverse cast.

I'm not sure what Reagan had to do with television programming, anyway.

 

[Good Will Riker]

^^^

Ronald Reagan, a former Hollywood actor, in the early-80's lifted the ban for television shows to cross-market comic books and action figures by using cartoons and kid's programming as unofficial advertisement tools:

G.I. Joe
Transformers
He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
My Little Pony
Gobots
etc.

Also, I would not consider the 80's to be a problem when it comes to television diversity. I would point to the 00's as the biggest modern day offender when it comes to the lack of television diversity, because you do not see any new current TV shows or programs nowadays with a non-caucasian actor/actress portraying a character in a central role.

 

[A beaker full of death]

"People of Color" ?? Jeez, are kids still using that term?

 

[Garth Rockett]

Ronald Reagan, a former Hollywood actor, in the early-80's lifted the ban for television shows to cross-market comic books and action figures by using cartoons and kid's programming as unofficial advertisement tools.

I didn't know that. Interesting!

 

[Jan]

I was just wondering...

America elected a black president in 2008. How will that affect the future of how blacks are reflected on TV in general, and speculative fiction specifically?

We already see that, according to SF, society will still be stratified along racial lines (how else can one explain all those white folks in Starfleet, when most of the folks in the world are black or brown?),

Hate to break it to you but Trek is not the be-all and end-all of SF. You had plenty of diversity in B5 with lots of senior officers and government personnel being people of color. Lots of inter-racial couples, too. Ditto on Heroes.

If the color of the president never influenced TV before, and I've never heard it said that it did, why assume that it will now? Let's just live as though the scenario Captain Zog posits has already come to pass-race is no longer significant.

Jan

 

[Gaith]

The Matrix series' freed humans, though light on Asians and Hispanics, was pretty diverse in an American black/white sense, with an emphasis on mixed-race actors, just like our president-elect.

But I'd be surprised if we didn't see more blacks in screen leadership roles, if only to reflect on Obama the same way movies like Day After Tomorrow obvious modeled Chris Cooper on Bush.

And as I've argued here before, the next bit-part POTUS in an Avengers-like comic-book movie should be... Barack Obama!

Even badasser than Will Smith.

 

[biotech]

Well if they will keep cancelling all the shows that had black guys and girls in them and renewing the ones that don't, this sort of thing is bound to happen.

Of course if you assume a black person wont watch a show with an all white cast, that's kind of racist in itself.

 

[Cicero]

and evidently some major calamity will nullify the inevitable emergence of China and India as world powers, since you never see them represented in most SF. But then, what do you expect, since most significant SF has its roots in North America, and most aliens still speak fluent English!!!

This is true. It's worth noting that Star Trek population proportions roughly match those seen in the United States. Far fewer persons in this country are non-"white" than is generally thought. Of a representative sample of ten Americans, 8 would be "white," 1 of African extraction, and 1 of African, East Asian, mixed race, or other extraction. Despite their low prevalence in media, non-"white" persons are, if anything, over-represented in media in comparison with their proportions of the population.

One might assume that the US came out unusually well in the third world war (which it did, from what we know; indeed, according to Enterprise the Vulcans opened relations with us in the absence of a world government), and that certain areas fared especially poorly. The court seen in Encounter at Farpoint (apparently somewhere in Asia, likely China) in connection with mention of the post-Atomic horror, and the mention of the Eastern Coalition as the faction opposed by the United States (and presumably some allies) seem to support the idea that China, at least, did not emerge from the war in good shape.

When thinking of race and race relations in the United States, it isn't just as simple as "Black vs. White," but there are other races such as Asian Americans (like myself), Native Americans, Latinos, Middle Easterners, and other ethnicities (Samoan, ethnic whites, etc.)

Techically speaking, three of the groups you listed are of the same race as even northern Europeans (Native Americans, Latinos/as, and Middle Easterners). To split them off would require treating French, German, Greek, English, etc. persons as separate races, as well, from a genetic standpoint. (Race, for what little its worth, can be determined by the examination of mitochondrial alleles. Populations break down into either five large groups (Indo-European-Americans, East Asians/Pacific Islanders/Northern North Americans, and three African races) or many relatively small groups, which groups tend to track neatly with declared ethnicity.

Perhaps, you may want to read some literary fiction by Sax Rohmer and his "Fu Manchu" novels dealing with the "yellow peril," as well as explore "Flash Gordon" and "Buck Rogers,"

How is Flash Gordon racist? Surely you don't mean Ming? If you consider him East Asian, you must also the dashing Prince Barin, king of Arboria, Flash's very capable best friend. In the comic strips, they are obviously of the same apparent "race."

And how Buck Rodgers? I'm familiar with the argument that the Han/Mongols represented "yellow peril," but they were merely adversaries from the far side of the world - they and the Americans eventually joined forces as a united Earth to fight the "Tiger men from Mars."

Shiwan Khan of "The Shadow,"

Shiwam Khan was one of four recurring Shadow villains, two of whom were American, and the other was (I think) from the Caribbean.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Well if they will keep cancelling all the shows that had black guys and girls in them and renewing the ones that don't, this sort of thing is bound to happen.

Of course if you assume a black person wont watch a show with an all white cast, that's kind of racist in itself.

The late-Bernie Mac said he grew up watching white shows like "Andy Griffith" and "My Three Sons" because...here comes the shock...hold on now...

He was American.

It is more likely that non-caucasians are apt to watch a show with an all-caucasian cast than the majority of caucasians will tune into watch a show with a predominantly non-caucasian cast.

 

[roguephoenix]

lol there probably won't be a term called "people of color" >_>

 

[Good Will Riker]

and evidently some major calamity will nullify the inevitable emergence of China and India as world powers, since you never see them represented in most SF. But then, what do you expect, since most significant SF has its roots in North America, and most aliens still speak fluent English!!!

This is true. It's worth noting that Star Trek population proportions roughly match those seen in the United States. Far fewer persons in this country are non-"white" than is generally thought. Of a representative sample of ten Americans, 8 would be "white," 1 of African extraction, and 1 of African, East Asian, mixed race, or other extraction. Despite their low prevalence in media, non-"white" persons are, if anything, over-represented in media in comparison with their proportions of the population.

One might assume that the US came out unusually well in the third world war (which it did, from what we know; indeed, according to Enterprise the Vulcans opened relations with us in the absence of a world government), and that certain areas fared especially poorly. The court seen in Encounter at Farpoint (apparently somewhere in Asia, likely China) in connection with mention of the post-Atomic horror, and the mention of the Eastern Coalition as the faction opposed by the United States (and presumably some allies) seem to support the idea that China, at least, did not emerge from the war in good shape.

When thinking of race and race relations in the United States, it isn't just as simple as "Black vs. White," but there are other races such as Asian Americans (like myself), Native Americans, Latinos, Middle Easterners, and other ethnicities (Samoan, ethnic whites, etc.)

Techically speaking, three of the groups you listed are of the same race as even northern Europeans (Native Americans, Latinos/as, and Middle Easterners). To split them off would require treating French, German, Greek, English, etc. persons as separate races, as well, from a genetic standpoint. (Race, for what little its worth, can be determined by the examination of mitochondrial alleles. Populations break down into either five large groups (Indo-European-Americans, East Asians/Pacific Islanders/Northern North Americans, and three African races) or many relatively small groups, which groups tend to track neatly with declared ethnicity.

Perhaps, you may want to read some literary fiction by Sax Rohmer and his "Fu Manchu" novels dealing with the "yellow peril," as well as explore "Flash Gordon" and "Buck Rogers,"

How is Flash Gordon racist? Surely you don't mean Ming? If you consider him East Asian, you must also the dashing Prince Barin, king of Arboria, Flash's very capable best friend. In the comic strips, they are obviously of the same apparent "race."

And how Buck Rodgers? I'm familiar with the argument that the Han/Mongols represented "yellow peril," but they were merely adversaries from the far side of the world - they and the Americans eventually joined forces as a united Earth to fight the "Tiger men from Mars."

Shiwan Khan of "The Shadow,"

Shiwam Khan was one of four recurring Shadow villains, two of whom were American, and the other was (I think) from the Caribbean.

Add the Mandarin and Fing Fang Foom from "Iron Man," both "orientalized villains" to that list while you are at it.

The only time I ever saw a modern westernized Asian male treated like an equal in a caucasian film production was in Jean-Jacques Annaud's The Lover (1992) with Tony Leung and Jane March.

The rest of the time, it is the same old waiter and kung fu caricatures like Mr. Miyagi that permeate the theater screens and the airwaves post-Sessue Hayakawa of 1920's Hollywood.