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Pentagon tests: F-22 has maintenance shortcomings

MaxPower said:
If the F-22 is too expensive and more than what any current emeny can handle how does the F-35 compare on cost/ and over kill?

Does the F-35 have and stealth paint/materials that is a maintenance nightmare?
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yes the JSF has stealth technology (though there are some complaints countries like Australia which is kicking $200mil + into the development will get a down spec model) , at present is cheaper per unit.

Maintanance won't be known until they enter service (about 2013 I believe) and in recent times it's a bit of a joint stirke turkey - over weight, over budget and under performance.

And it's way behind schedule.

Australia is looking for buy Super Hornets as a stop gap measure becasue the F-111s are dire need of grounding because their age is catching up with them and the JSF isn't near ready.
 
The sad thing is that the US can't keep buying planes designed in the late 60's and late 70's. The good news is that the F-16 and F-18/F-18 Super Hornet is the best in the world. I just don't see the F-22 or the F-35 being the best answer to the question of what the US needs. I forsee that the F-22 will be a white elephant and the F-35 will do ok with bugdet problems, until the US gets a fleet of unmanned planes.
 
MaxPower said:
The sad thing is that the US can't keep buying planes designed in the late 60's and late 70's. The good news is that the F-16 and F-18/F-18 Super Hornet is the best in the world. I just don't see the F-22 or the F-35 being the best answer to the question of what the US needs. I forsee that the F-22 will be a white elephant and the F-35 will do ok with bugdet problems, until the US gets a fleet of unmanned planes.
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Though the biggest danger will be compromises because the JSF is intended to be a one size fits all.

The USN will fly them off carriers, the USMC will flight them off ships (carriers? helicopter carries, not sure what they're counted as but JSF will replace the AV-8 Harrier). Think the USAF might be flying them too.

Australai's RAAF will be flying them as land based aircraft.
 
MaxPower said:
The sad thing is that the US can't keep buying planes designed in the late 60's and late 70's. The good news is that the F-16 and F-18/F-18 Super Hornet is the best in the world. I just don't see the F-22 or the F-35 being the best answer to the question of what the US needs. I forsee that the F-22 will be a white elephant and the F-35 will do ok with bugdet problems, until the US gets a fleet of unmanned planes.
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The F-16 & F-18 first went online in the 1970's.
 
msbae said:
MaxPower said:
The sad thing is that the US can't keep buying planes designed in the late 60's and late 70's. The good news is that the F-16 and F-18/F-18 Super Hornet is the best in the world. I just don't see the F-22 or the F-35 being the best answer to the question of what the US needs. I forsee that the F-22 will be a white elephant and the F-35 will do ok with bugdet problems, until the US gets a fleet of unmanned planes.
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The F-16 & F-18 first went online in the 1970's.
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F/A-18 had its very first flight (prototype, I believe) in 1978 and entered service in 83. The F-16 did enter service in 1977. Of course, it was way ahead of its time even then, and was designed with low-tech design solutions that in many ways make it equal to the F-22 in terms of America's strike/air superiority requirements.

That is to say I'm forced to agree with the Fighter Mafia's timeless assertions: any fighter plane, no matter how advanced, is only as good as its pilot, and the F-16 (and to a lesser extent the F-15) is a dog-fighter's plane, designed with the understanding in mind that the most lethal weapon on any aircraft is the guy in the cockpit. Barring very extreme disparities of technology and weaponry (say, a resurgent Soviet Union equipped with Macross Valkyries) is more than adequate for just about any airborne threat it's likely to encounter.

All we have to do is not get into a war with the European Union. Especially since I'm not so sure of the F-22's chances against the EF-2000.
 
newtype_alpha said:
F/A-18 had its very first flight (prototype, I believe) in 1978 and entered service in 83. The F-16 did enter service in 1977. Of course, it was way ahead of its time even then, and was designed with low-tech design solutions that in many ways make it equal to the F-22 in terms of America's strike/air superiority requirements.

That is to say I'm forced to agree with the Fighter Mafia's timeless assertions: any fighter plane, no matter how advanced, is only as good as its pilot, and the F-16 (and to a lesser extent the F-15) is a dog-fighter's plane, designed with the understanding in mind that the most lethal weapon on any aircraft is the guy in the cockpit. Barring very extreme disparities of technology and weaponry (say, a resurgent Soviet Union equipped with Macross Valkyries) is more than adequate for just about any airborne threat it's likely to encounter.

All we have to do is not get into a war with the European Union. Especially since I'm not so sure of the F-22's chances against the EF-2000.
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Going to war against Europe wouldn't be in Europe's best interests. We already have one hell of a Foothold on their territory and the Germans are pacifists now. They'd have their asses handed to them.

Also, you are right when you say the pilots are the best weapon system. I'd still like to see the F-22's problems fixed. That plane would be a remarkable asset if it worked as advertised.
 
newtype_alpha said:
msbae said:
MaxPower said:
The sad thing is that the US can't keep buying planes designed in the late 60's and late 70's. The good news is that the F-16 and F-18/F-18 Super Hornet is the best in the world. I just don't see the F-22 or the F-35 being the best answer to the question of what the US needs. I forsee that the F-22 will be a white elephant and the F-35 will do ok with bugdet problems, until the US gets a fleet of unmanned planes.
Click to expand...

The F-16 & F-18 first went online in the 1970's.
Click to expand...

F/A-18 had its very first flight (prototype, I believe) in 1978 and entered service in 83. The F-16 did enter service in 1977. Of course, it was way ahead of its time even then, and was designed with low-tech design solutions that in many ways make it equal to the F-22 in terms of America's strike/air superiority requirements.

That is to say I'm forced to agree with the Fighter Mafia's timeless assertions: any fighter plane, no matter how advanced, is only as good as its pilot, and the F-16 (and to a lesser extent the F-15) is a dog-fighter's plane, designed with the understanding in mind that the most lethal weapon on any aircraft is the guy in the cockpit. Barring very extreme disparities of technology and weaponry (say, a resurgent Soviet Union equipped with Macross Valkyries) is more than adequate for just about any airborne threat it's likely to encounter.

All we have to do is not get into a war with the European Union. Especially since I'm not so sure of the F-22's chances against the EF-2000.
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That and early F-16s liked to eat their pilots alive and then commit suicide.
 
msbae said:
Going to war against Europe wouldn't be in Europe's best interests. We already have one hell of a Foothold on their territory and the Germans are pacifists now. They'd have their asses handed to them.
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Well if you actually went to war against "Europe" as in a unified, organised conglomorate of European militaries, it would not be nearly as simple as you think.

Fortunately for everyone involved it is so completely unlikely the thought itself is ludicrous.
 
USS KG5 said:
msbae said:
Going to war against Europe wouldn't be in Europe's best interests. We already have one hell of a Foothold on their territory and the Germans are pacifists now. They'd have their asses handed to them.
Click to expand...

Well if you actually went to war against "Europe" as in a unified, organised conglomorate of European militaries, it would not be nearly as simple as you think.

Fortunately for everyone involved it is so completely unlikely the thought itself is ludicrous.
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Exactly.
 
I just hope it doesn't wind up like the last time the US tried to build one fighter for everyone. Granted the F-111 did find a niche with the Air Force, but it never got widespread deployment as originally concieved.
 
Alpha_Geek said:
I just hope it doesn't wind up like the last time the US tried to build one fighter for everyone. Granted the F-111 did find a niche with the Air Force, but it never got widespread deployment as originally concieved.
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Yeah. Generally the jack-of-all-trades warbird ends up pleasing no one.
 
Half of the problem with the F-16 and F-18 is that they are not so out dated but everyone has them. The business of war needs some new plans to sell. Europe has the new EF-2000 and the US companies has the old F-16 and F-18 to compete. There is nothing wrong with these planes other than it is not the newest thing on the market. The F-35 is the newest thing and I bet will be a great seller to the countries that already have US planes.

If the US will sell the F-22 they will be not as fancy and only sold to a few countries, Saudi Arabia and Israel I bet will be first.
 
MaxPower said:
Half of the problem with the F-16 and F-18 is that they are not so out dated but everyone has them. The business of war needs some new plans to sell. Europe has the new EF-2000 and the US companies has the old F-16 and F-18 to compete. There is nothing wrong with these planes other than it is not the newest thing on the market. The F-35 is the newest thing and I bet will be a great seller to the countries that already have US planes.

If the US will sell the F-22 they will be not as fancy and only sold to a few countries, Saudi Arabia and Israel I bet will be first.
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The F-35 is already a top seller and it's not even in production :)

Australia is taking them as land based to replace the F-111s, I gather the U.K is going to the Naval version to replace the Harriers.

According to Wiki, Canada, Italy, The Netherlands, Turkey, Nowary and Denmak are also involved in the development and will be purchasing.

By 2035 total sales are expected to hit 3100 units.
 
TEH BABA said:
FA-18 is a better plan cause it is flown by naval pilots :)
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The JSF will aslo be flown by Navy pilots (American, British, and Italian). The British and Italians and USMC will fly the STVOL B model. The C will only be flown by the USN and will be a full carrier version to replace the Hornets.
 
Marc said:
TEH BABA said:
FA-18 is a better plan cause it is flown by naval pilots :)
Click to expand...

The JSF will aslo be flown by Navy pilots (American, British, and Italian). The British and Italians and USMC will fly the STVOL B model. The C will only be flown by the USN and will be a full carrier version to replace the Hornets.
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The F-35C is in test right now with expected delivery to the US Navy in 2012.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2009/07/20/daily37.html
 
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