Peeling "The Apple"

[T'Girl]

They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss.

It was likely dark humor, however a commanding officer can "fire" a subordinate officer by permanately releaving them of their duties and replacing they with a new officer.

Scott would go into Starfleet's "labor pool,' and await a new assignment. Any prospective new commanding officer would take into account the he was releaved with prejudice from him last posting.

Again probably just dark humor.

 

[scotpens]

And what's with the bit where Kirk says to Scotty: "If you can't get those warp engines working, you're fired"? Fired? They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss. I suppose that line could have been meant as a joke, but it just comes across as sloppy writing.

It's meant to be a jokey way of saying, "I'll be very unhappy with you," which makes it a way of showing Kirk's persona as a man who bonds with his crew and who doesn't just snap out orders. This means that it's not sloppy writing; it's character-based writing.

It wasn't really jokey, it was graveyard humor. Kirk knew Scotty was doing everything humanly possible and Scotty knew they were screwed if they didn't get the engines, but Kirk is the boss and he has to do something to inspire his crew, so it was a half-hearted joke instead of wasting their time with a tirade. I thought it was a bit of excellent writing, amid some, well, not so great writing.

Well, maybe it was just too subtle for me.

 

[Melakon]

Definitions of humor have changed a little bit over the last 50 years.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died..."City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.

Agreed. That "Jackson is dead" line at the end of Catspaw, to me at least, totally redeems a crazy episode.

 

[Grant]

I think Spock was big enough to take some good-natured kidding.

The real problem with the ending was the television-related need for it to be upbeat after four men just died..."City on the Edge," "Catspaw," and "A Private Little War" got it right.

Agreed. That "Jackson is dead" line at the end of Catspaw, to me at least, totally redeems a crazy episode.

Yeah but 2 episodes later Grant got no such respect!

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Yeah but 2 episodes later Grant got no such respect!

That's true, but....Jackson had that great stunt fall that gave his life meaning. Yes, that's it.

Grant didn't get it because....well, at the end a baby was born, and that symbolized new life in the shadow of death...oh wait, that was Star Trek II...

 

[Melakon]

Yeah but 2 episodes later Grant got no such respect!

That's true, but....Jackson had that great stunt fall that gave his life meaning. Yes, that's it.

Grant didn't get it because....well, at the end a baby was born, and that symbolized new life in the shadow of death...oh wait, that was Star Trek II...

Of course Grant got respect!

KIRK: He was young, and inexperienced.

Translation: He was a stupid kid.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Translation: He was a stupid kid.

And in spite of that, Kirk brought him on a mission where a violation of hair-trigger cultural mores could've destroyed the mission!

But far be it from me to call Kirk a stupid Captain!

 

[Melakon]

Was Grant even at McCoy's pre-mission briefing? Maybe he didn't get the memo.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

And dare I mentioned that I have an autographed photo of Celeste Yarnall on my wall, only a few feet away from where I'm typing this? (Celeste tried to talk me into writing her character into the novels once . . ..)

If I may... why not? No interest in the character of Landon; haven't found a suitable plot to plug the character into...?

Sir Rhosis

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The bit about Scotty being fired was pretty good gallows humor. It was clear that failure meant death anyway, so being fired would be trivial by comparison, and thus the joke.

I'm sure James Doohan would have agreed that "The Apple" and "Friday's Child" were great episodes for Scotty. He got a lot of dialogue, and didn't get flung through the air for trying to help a girl, like he did in "The Changeling" and "Who Mourns for Adonais" and "The Lights of Zetar."

Scotty gave up on women after that-- while he could still walk.

 

[AtoZ]

But by the middle of the second season, the forced jokey ending was already becoming a Trek cliché.

I wouldn't mind a GOOD jokey ending, but they were often so very labored.

And what's with the bit where Kirk says to Scotty: "If you can't get those warp engines working, you're fired"? Fired? They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss. I suppose that line could have been meant as a joke, but it just comes across as sloppy writing.

It's meant to be a jokey way of saying, "I'll be very unhappy with you," which makes it a way of showing Kirk's persona as a man who bonds with his crew and who doesn't just snap out orders. This means that it's not sloppy writing; it's character-based writing.

I'd buy into that except it never came up once before over ever again after between Kirk and Scotty. I lean towards it being sloppy writing.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

More to the point of sloppy writing, I'm less forgiving of the way (I think it's this episode) the way Scotty keeps talking about flies. "We couldna beam up a fly!" and later on, something about being like a fly on flypaper!

 

[Maurice]

Methinks you guys don't really know what "sloppy writing" is if those are what you consider examples.

 

[Melakon]

I'm sure James Doohan would have agreed that "The Apple" and "Friday's Child" were great episodes for Scotty. He got a lot of dialogue, and didn't get flung through the air for trying to help a girl, like he did in "The Changeling" and "Who Mourns for Adonais" and "The Lights of Zetar."

I still think "A Taste of Armageddon" was one of Scott's finest hours, when he basically told Ambassador Fox to shove it up his ass.

 

[scotpens]

The bit about Scotty being fired was pretty good gallows humor. It was clear that failure meant death anyway, so being fired would be trivial by comparison, and thus the joke.

Oh, I get the gallows-humor part. It just should have been written with a more military flavor, something like this deleted exchange between Cmdr. J.J. Adams and Lt. Jerry Farman in Forbidden Planet:

ADAMS: Some day you're going to bring us out right inside some star!

FARMAN: Yeah, and you'll probably court-martial me for it.

 

[MikeH92467]

I'm sure James Doohan would have agreed that "The Apple" and "Friday's Child" were great episodes for Scotty. He got a lot of dialogue, and didn't get flung through the air for trying to help a girl, like he did in "The Changeling" and "Who Mourns for Adonais" and "The Lights of Zetar."

I still think "A Taste of Armageddon" was one of Scott's finest hours, when he basically told Ambassador Fox to shove it up his ass.

Nah, I think it was in the Roman episode where he turned the lights out on the whole freakin' planet as a show of force and in spite of Kirk's "Condition Green" order of non-interference. Kirk was willing to sacrifice himself and his landing party to avoid compounding Merrick's mistake, but Scotty found a way to save the landing party and more than earned the commendation Kirk gave him. We all know Scotty never wanted to be a captain, but he showed right there that he had the brains and the balls for the job.

 

[Commishsleer]

But by the middle of the second season, the forced jokey ending was already becoming a Trek cliché.

I wouldn't mind a GOOD jokey ending, but they were often so very labored.

And what's with the bit where Kirk says to Scotty: "If you can't get those warp engines working, you're fired"? Fired? They're the C.O. and chief engineer of a military starship, not a civilian employee and his boss. I suppose that line could have been meant as a joke, but it just comes across as sloppy writing.

It's meant to be a jokey way of saying, "I'll be very unhappy with you," which makes it a way of showing Kirk's persona as a man who bonds with his crew and who doesn't just snap out orders. This means that it's not sloppy writing; it's character-based writing.

I'd buy into that except it never came up once before over ever again after between Kirk and Scotty. I lean towards it being sloppy writing.

I thought Kirk threatened to fire him in one other episode. He certainly said to him once 'You've earnt your pay for the week'.
Or was that Chekov?

 

[Metryq]

I thought Kirk threatened to fire him in one other episode. He certainly said to him once 'You've earnt your pay for the week'.
Or was that Chekov?

Chekov in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" I was going to mention that, but you beat me to it.

 

[Greg Cox]

And Kirk once teased Spock about dipping little girl's pigtails in inkwells. That's just how he talks. It's not to be taken literally.

If Kirk says something like "You really pulled our fat out of the fire this time!", it's doesn't mean the Enterprise's supply of lard was literally in danger of combusting!

It's just breezy, 60's-era banter . . ..