Paul Wesley's incarnation of James T. Kirk

[fireproof78]

He might arguably adapt to the realities of his crew, but that would not explain why he was so different with Pike. If he would be so impressionable with each crew that his personality would change from posting to posting, he would be unreliable.

It's not a matter of reliability but emphasis. @Noname Given is explaining it better than I, but Kirk in this alternate take is not in the special class of Starship captains, and lacks the experience that would understandably go along with it. To me, different aspects of the personality get emphasis or priority depending on the job. When I worked retail I was a go to it type of person who was expected to get projects done a certain way. At my current job, as a supervisor, it looks way different and those aspects of my personality do not get emphasized as much.

I'm not explaining this as well as I would like but I don't think it is personality but approach in interacting with people, which is shaped by the demands of a job and people we interact with. At least in my experience.

Frankly, Tuvok was as good a "Spock" as any Spock since Nimoy. I felt Russ's Tuvok, captured more of Nimoy's original Spock than any other actual "Spock" actor. Of course, the argument follows that perhaps that's not what Russ should've done, but..., just sayin.

Russ did a lot more with a Vulcan than Spock did, and it was really neat to see that. Russ provided this idea of extreme privacy in his Vulcan portrayal, yet underneath that all was a lot of emotion. Him and Nimoy are my go to Vulcans, with Lenard, and Quinto right behind them.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

If there's one thing that everyone can agree on, it's that Tim Russ absolutely nailed playing a Vulcan.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, Nimoy's Spock is my all-time favorite Vulcan but Tuvok is definitely one of the best ever committed to screen. Russ gave us a textured and interesting performance and Tuvok was one of the best things about VOY.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But this Kirk was NOT given command of a Starship in that timeline (and Starships and Starship Captains are considered a very special ship/very special type of Captain <--- and that was said a number of times in TOS directly; as well as STD when they were explaining WHY Pike and the 1701 were never involved in the Fed/Klingon war in a combat role), Kirk was in command of a Federation starship <--- So that already goes to show that WITHOUT Pike's recommendation the Admiralty of Starfleet didn't think Kirk's Command style warranted assignment to a Starship

Farragut lacked faster than light capabilities? WTF!

 

[Nerys Myk]

If there's one thing that everyone can agree on, it's that Tim Russ absolutely nailed playing a Vulcan.

Not a fan, myself.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Kirk in this alternate take is not in the special class of Starship captains, and lacks the experience that would understandably go along with it.

Kirk holds the same rank as Pike. It's logical that he commands a ship of comparable crew and assets that though they may be less, are nonetheless comparable. He was deployed with his ship to a forward area, the Neutral Zone, where diplomatic and tactical skills would need to be finely tuned. Kirk would have had the same leadership training that Pike had. We have every reason to believe that Kirk had the same level of command experience at the time he took command in TOS that Pike would have had when both took over the Enterprise. Kirk was not so obviously unprepared if he could have commanded the same ship.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk holds the same rank as Pike. It's logical that he commands a ship of comparable crew and assets that though they may be less, are nonetheless comparable. He was deployed with his ship to a forward area, the Neutral Zone, where diplomatic and tactical skills would need to be finely tuned. Kirk would have had the same leadership training that Pike had. We have every reason to believe that Kirk had the same level of command experience at the time he took command in TOS that Pike would have had when both took over the Enterprise. Kirk was not so obviously unprepared if he could have commanded the same ship.

This misses my point.

Oh well. Mileage will vary.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

This misses my point.

Oh well. Mileage will vary.

IDK, you seem to want to keep correcting me. I think you need to read up on military leadership.

Why don't you accept we have a difference of opinion and move on.

 

[Dar70]

If there's one thing that everyone can agree on, it's that Tim Russ absolutely nailed playing a Vulcan.

Haha. Heck yeah.

 

[fireproof78]

IDK, you seem to want to keep correcting me. I think you need to read up on military leadership.

Have. And learned from many.

I'm not articulating myself well. My bad. Thanks.

 

[Donald G]

Farragut lacked faster than light capabilities? WTF!

At no point did Noname Given imply that the Farragut lacked FTL capabilities. His capitalization and bolding of the S in Starship is to emphasize the esteem in which the Constitution class carries within Starfleet as opposed to a run of the mill starship (note the lower case, unbolded s) like the Farragut.

Or to invoke Captain Merrick of the S.S. Beagle in "Bread and Circuses," "He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a STARship, a very special vessel and crew."

The Farragut is a starship, yes, with FTL properties, but it is not a top of the line Constitution, with the prestige that entails.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

At no point did Noname Given imply that the Farragut lacked FTL capabilities. His capitalization and bolding of the S in Starship is to emphasize the esteem in which the Constitution class carries within Starfleet as opposed to a run of the mill starship (note the lower case, unbolded s) like the Farragut.

Or to invoke Captain Merrick of the S.S. Beagle in "Bread and Circuses," "He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a STARship, a very special vessel and crew."

The Farragut is a starship, yes, with FTL properties, but it is not a top of the line Constitution, with the prestige that entails.

What he said was rhetorical. The Enterprise and Farragut were comparable ships capable of being deployed to forward zones. Kirk may have less experience than Pike, but we know that he had enough experience to command a ship like the Enterprise BECAUSE HE DID IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What he said was rhetorical. The Enterprise and Farragut were comparable ships capable of being deployed to forward zones. Kirk may have less experience than Pike, but we know that he had enough experience to command a ship like the Enterprise BECAUSE HE DID IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES.

Do we?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Yes. I learned it by watching a show called Star Trek (aka TOS).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes. I learned it by watching a show called Star Trek (aka TOS).

That nice, but this Kirk isn't that Kirk. His career seems to have plateaued at the Farragut. Might have missed out on some of TOS-Kirk's career defining missions.

 

[David cgc]

At no point did Noname Given imply that the Farragut lacked FTL capabilities. His capitalization and bolding of the S in Starship is to emphasize the esteem in which the Constitution class carries within Starfleet as opposed to a run of the mill starship (note the lower case, unbolded s) like the Farragut.

Up until eight days ago, it would've been an uncontroversial assertion that the Farragut was a Starship, what with its crew of over 400, its inclusion in the list of Starships in memos reproduced in The Making of Star Trek, and the fact that it's called a Starship in dialog.

“I was speaking of Lieutenant James T. Kirk of the Starship Farragut.”

“I don't know how I know, but ‘home’ is where it fought a Starship once before.”

And, ironically, SNW itself has put the nail into the coffin that “Starship” ever in-universe referred exclusively to the Constitution-class, with the revised dedication plaque changing the line “Starship Class” to “Starship Class: Constitution.”

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That nice, but this Kirk isn't that Kirk. His career seems to have plateaued at the Farragut. Might have missed out on some of TOS-Kirk's career defining missions.

What would have prevented THIS Kirk from taking the Enterprise at the time of Pike's accident?

 

[Ovation]

While I have no skin in the particular debate, I believe a present day equivalent would be a captain of a frigate vs a captain of an aircraft carrier.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What would have prevented THIS Kirk from taking the Enterprise at the time of Pike's accident?

Well, for one that accident never happened, Pike stayed with the Enterprise and Kirk stayed with the Farragut.. Apparently he was a Riker type, waiting for the chair in the ship he knew. Though Riker wised up eventually.

 

[cooleddie74]

This Kirk may be carrying the trauma and ghosts of 200 fatalities at Tycho IV. Extremely unwilling to ever again let a dangerous opponent get the drop on his ship and willing to fire first.