I keep reading the thread because I hope more people who have upgraded to HDTV and HD players will post about their experience - does everyone who has done that find DVDs unwatchable? I am not crazy about making my entire DVD collection obsolete overnight, and there are some that have no prospects of every being released in UHD.
Paramount working on DS9 HD?
- Thread starter Captain Dax
- Start date
Watching the original DVDs/a clean rip of the original DVDs at their native resolution on a regular-size computer monitor (i.e., a screen measuring twenty-two inches diagonal or less) is an acceptable experience. However, once you stretch the picture to encompass the entire screen or watch that same source material on a full-sized High Definition Television (i.e., a screen measuring forty-two inches diagonal or greater), the blurriness becomes evident in a hurry. There is no comparison between 480p/480i media and the High-Definition remaster of The Next Generation. Much like the Law of Conservation of Mass, all the best "upscaling" software cannot create something that is not there; you will always be working with a compromise that artificially fills in pixel space without providing a commensurate amount of detail.
There are those of us who can tolerate the deficiency while others rebel against the very notion.
There are those of us who can tolerate the deficiency while others rebel against the very notion.
For me, as strange as it sounds, I won’t watch DS9/VOY out of having a deep love for them. We still have all classic Trek on Netflix in Vietnam and it is never not a pleasure to be able to just throw an episode of TNG on when I have a free hour. I find the statue that VOY/DS9 are in to be… sad. And that somehow makes me feel sad when I watch.
To me, VOY and DS9 look like what rusty, beat up old classic cars must look like to those who prize such things. Every time I have tried to sit through a DS9/VOY I just can’t shake off that feeling that what I’m watching could be so much more.
Regardless, when it’s done, because sooner or later it will inevitably be done, I’ll be over the moon and revisiting both shows. I know these shows can look better, and when it happens, I am so there.
To me, VOY and DS9 look like what rusty, beat up old classic cars must look like to those who prize such things. Every time I have tried to sit through a DS9/VOY I just can’t shake off that feeling that what I’m watching could be so much more.
Regardless, when it’s done, because sooner or later it will inevitably be done, I’ll be over the moon and revisiting both shows. I know these shows can look better, and when it happens, I am so there.
@kkt
I think Ragitsu put it really well. The issues are objectively evident. Where the subjectivity comes in is in an individuals level of tolerance.
If they look alright to you, so they do, fair enough. But you can’t honestly say that side by side there is no difference in picture quality between TNG-R and DS9/VOY.
I feel like this is a deep trench thing. Nobody is going to move, but I hope you’ll take my post in the spirit of friendliness in which it is intended. I am diametrically opposed to your viewpoint, but that doesn’t mean I think it is invalid.
I quite like this discussion.
I did try watching my DVDs a few years ago, but quickly abandoned them in favour of Netflix.
The picture quality is pretty much identical, but the main improvement is that they run at the right speed.
The Region 2 DVDs have the dreaded PAL speed up, which makes everyone sound too high a pitch. Once you know, it's difficult to un-hear it.
If the series is remastered I will gladly buy Blu-rays (or 4K discs) and get rid of those DVDs. I don't really know why I'm still hanging onto them given that I'm unlikely to ever watch them again.
The picture quality is pretty much identical, but the main improvement is that they run at the right speed.
The Region 2 DVDs have the dreaded PAL speed up, which makes everyone sound too high a pitch. Once you know, it's difficult to un-hear it.
If the series is remastered I will gladly buy Blu-rays (or 4K discs) and get rid of those DVDs. I don't really know why I'm still hanging onto them given that I'm unlikely to ever watch them again.
I've been watching DS9 via Netflix recently on a 65" 4K screen and still find it extremely watchable. I still see a massive (and obvious) difference between watching HD TNG and SD DS9, but... its fine. For me anyway. Maybe its more jarring at first, but after an episode or two you get used to it and just enjoy the show. As Richard says though, its obviously down to individual tastes.
I'll be delighted to switch to potential HD remasters, but until then I can still watch the originals.
Re: models vs CGI, was the fleet scene at the end of Call to Arms CGI? I always assumed so give the amount of ships.
I'll be delighted to switch to potential HD remasters, but until then I can still watch the originals.
Re: models vs CGI, was the fleet scene at the end of Call to Arms CGI? I always assumed so give the amount of ships.
That shot is a mixture. The Defiant and Martok's Bird of Prey are CG, and the rest of the fleet is a mixture of CG, full-size models, and smaller scale models.
I have a professionally calibrated 4k TV and find it very difficult to sit through some DS9 episodes because of how "muddy" they look. The S6 episode "Honor Among Thieves" was particularly bad and so were some of the Section 31 themed episodes.
My guess is anyone who doesn't find there to be much of a difference between TNG HD and DS9 SD probably needs to adjust their settings until TNG looks better.
My guess is anyone who doesn't find there to be much of a difference between TNG HD and DS9 SD probably needs to adjust their settings until TNG looks better.
Why?
Are the visuals that essential to be constantly fiddling with settings?
Genuine question.
It would be a one time fix/adjustment to the picture settings and once it's done everything you watch in HD should look better. Definitely worth taking the time to do especially if you've paid a lot of money for a 4K TV.
To clarify further from my side, it doesn’t help my enjoyment at all that I am a fan and keen reader on the subject of film restoration. In my teens, my Doctor Who heroes weren’t people like Tom Baker or whoever. I was deep into the work of the BBC Restoration Team (Doctor Who fans of a certain ilk will be familiar with names like Richard Molesworth or Paul Vanezis).
From there I spun into being a fan of film restoration in general. I just find it fascinating, the things that can be done with old masters. I’m a paid up patron of the BFI. Seeing old stuff brought up to scratch is something that gives me a warm glow.
It’s wrong to say the shows are unwatchable. Clearly that’s not the case as they are still watched widely.
Also, I’d be willing to watch a show in SD if I was absolutely certain it would never see a remaster.
But then that’s kind of my problem. I know that DS9 and VOY will be done at some point. At some time it will become financially viable and it will happen.
I’m just waiting out the time so I can enjoy the shows as I want to. I don’t think that’s silly, any more than I think it’s silly to watch DS9/VOY in their present state.
Television is a visual medium. Hence the vision in television.
You are entitled to your view that it’s not important, but let’s not be questioning whether or not it is important.
Of course visuals are important in television, much as with cinema. You’re thinking of Radio. There’s a medium where the visuals don’t matter .
From there I spun into being a fan of film restoration in general. I just find it fascinating, the things that can be done with old masters. I’m a paid up patron of the BFI. Seeing old stuff brought up to scratch is something that gives me a warm glow.
It’s wrong to say the shows are unwatchable. Clearly that’s not the case as they are still watched widely.
Also, I’d be willing to watch a show in SD if I was absolutely certain it would never see a remaster.
But then that’s kind of my problem. I know that DS9 and VOY will be done at some point. At some time it will become financially viable and it will happen.
I’m just waiting out the time so I can enjoy the shows as I want to. I don’t think that’s silly, any more than I think it’s silly to watch DS9/VOY in their present state.
Television is a visual medium. Hence the vision in television.
You are entitled to your view that it’s not important, but let’s not be questioning whether or not it is important.
Of course visuals are important in television, much as with cinema. You’re thinking of Radio. There’s a medium where the visuals don’t matter .
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Not entirely. But, I am also an oddball. One, visuals never stood out to me unless they are egregiously bad, or incredibly good. I blame my fairly poor vision on that fact. This is true for video games, as well as TV and movies. Now, I will also blame the fact that I grew up with relatively cheap parents who did not invest money in the latest and greatest video equipment so I will admit a strong bias on my part that watchable is good enough.
And perhaps that is my blind spot (no pun intended) in that "good enough" isn't good enough for all. I don't think it's a matter of importance but the extent of work that is done to make these visuals reach a certain standard is something I will freely admit to falling outside of my full understanding.
And before anyone says "Well, would you tolerate a glitchy picture or too much noise." The answer "No." Clarity of the picture is fine, but to me SD and HD are terms that don't really carry any weight.
It clearly has far more value to you, especially with your love of restoration of film which is a whole fascinating idea in of itself, not just in Star Trek but the whole industry. So that I at least grasp. But, the money spent on 4K/HD/whatever-the-fuck is something I know I should understand. But I don't.
If they upscale DS9 and VOY to HD, they'll probably put it on Paramount+. Whether immediately or eventually. So, I'm not spending any more than what I'm already spending. Unless I ever decide to cancel my Paramount+ subscription.
Upscaling DS9 and VOY now (or in the near-future) is a lot cheaper than upscaling it in 2012 would've been. If it's cheap enough that Paramount can afford it, and they can make sure the entire Star Trek franchise is future-proofed, they'll do it. How they decide to spend their money isn't my business.
Upscaling DS9 and VOY now (or in the near-future) is a lot cheaper than upscaling it in 2012 would've been. If it's cheap enough that Paramount can afford it, and they can make sure the entire Star Trek franchise is future-proofed, they'll do it. How they decide to spend their money isn't my business.
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I think that’s fair. You are, not in an insulting sense, both an oddball and an outlier for still using the equipment you do, but that’s fair. Poor eyesight may factor in as well.
It’s one of my things. I love to watch stuff get fixed. Like the X-Wing video I shared in the Playmates toy thread.
I would imagine it's gone from "Hey, we didn't make money off of the TNG sets so we're not going to do DS9 and VOY" (when physical media was their revenue stream) to "Hey, we no longer have a revenue stream with the SD versions of the show because people aren't going to sign up for P+ for SD."
It might also be (as some have suggested) going to be a cheaper process than TNG was. Or not and they figure they're going to lose an asset if they don't do it.
It might also be (as some have suggested) going to be a cheaper process than TNG was. Or not and they figure they're going to lose an asset if they don't do it.
I think this will be the push.
I don't think there is enough market demand to fully justify the cost but I think its a risk they might take to control depreciation.
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I am very much both of those things. It's the same reason why video games don't bother me either. People will say "Oh, the graphics must look like X" and I'm like "Y?" (pun intended). If the game is gripping in its own right then HD graphics are not going to be the make or break for me.
And again, this is extremely personal preference, not just due to poor eyesight, but also just experience. There are few experiences I have found that have been made better because of graphics being at HD resolution.
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