Pakistani Captain

[Kegek]

Maybe the Middle Eastern captain will be Al-Batani or a perhaps an ancestor of Dr. Bashir?

Muhammad ibn Jābir al-Harrānī al-Battānī was an Arab astronomer and mathematician. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Jābir_al-Harrānī_al-Battānī

And Bashir's ancestors already include a fictituous fifteenth century poet. Besides, it's not like we act all the Caucasian characters have got to be related somehow, do we?

 

[iguana_tonante]

Maybe the Middle Eastern captain will be Al-Batani or a perhaps an ancestor of Dr. Bashir?

Muhammad ibn Jābir al-Harrānī al-Battānī was an Arab astronomer and mathematician. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Jābir_al-Harrānī_al-Battānī

And Bashir's ancestors already include a fictituous fifteenth century poet. Besides, it's not like we act all the Caucasian characters have got to be related somehow, do we?

I agree. Let the new character stand on his own.

 

[starburst]

Sounds good, hopefully they arent going down the un neccessary Muslim route, it can be in his back story but unless it has some real relevance to the script I hope it doesnt make it onto the screen, instead its great that people from other areas of Earth are going to represented in a non "shove em in there" token type way.

Nice change for the actor though playing a hero and not a bad guy. Will help him in the long run so he doesnt get typecast in the terrorist/bad guy role.

 

[M'Sharak]

Nice change for the actor though playing a hero and not a bad guy. Will help him in the long run so he doesnt get typecast in the terrorist/bad guy role.

I wasn't aware that there was any real danger of that happening, outside of this thread.

 

[Nowhere Man]

it seemed to me that TOS was respectfull of religion and maybe some of the characters even had some sort of belief, maybe not like a full on religion , but a belief. It was TNG that wasent so much, but none the less respected it. DS9 definately had religion involved and VOY had mixed aproach. that being said I think that it would be likely that amoung other things they would teach History, Religion and Mythology at the academy considering they have contact with so many other Aliens. I also want to point out that just becouse he's Pakistani dosen't mean he's a muslim. acording to the article they wanted to put him in just like they did with Chekov to kinda take the high ground instead of making him a terorist or something.

 

[starburst]

Nice change for the actor though playing a hero and not a bad guy. Will help him in the long run so he doesnt get typecast in the terrorist/bad guy role.

I wasn't aware that there was any real danger of that happening, outside of this thread.

I really have no idea as Ive not seen alot with him in and was reffering directly to the article about his casting and his recent roles as bad guys. Alot of actors seem concerened about being typecast and enjoy different roles...so all in all its good for him!

On a different note its was said he will be Captaining a ship which is older than the Enterprise, pretty cool to know we will be getting another SF ship in this film!

 

[Patrickivan]

. Please don't imply that I'm racist, I treat everyone I meet the same...

I didn't imply anything. Infer what you will from that statement.

The thread jumped to a whole lot of conclusions, based on absolutely no information other then the guy's race. There were many derogatory remarks as a result of his race, and his speculated religious background both in real life and to be in the movie.

That is a form of racial profiling and did not serve any purpose with regards to the movie. So you judge if anyone made racist comments or not. I made my judgment because after all, I am only human.

We speculate about so much about this movie, but this was mostly asinine.

 

[indranee]

Pakistanis can be Hindus as well as Christian. It's a MAJORITY Muslim country, not an ALL-Muslim one.

and for the last time, BBSpeople, it's NOT A MIDDLE EASTERN NATION!

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Pakistanis can be Hindus as well as Christian. It's a MAJORITY Muslim country, not an ALL-Muslim one.

and for the last time, BBSpeople, it's NOT A MIDDLE EASTERN NATION!

The Dhimi population in Pakistan is a bit larger than in other muslim nations (ie, Iran) in the area, that's true... but it's not like the minorities are treated equally... just to be clear.

I think of the "middle east" as ending at the Pakistan/India border, and stretching upwards into Kazakhstan and the other former-USSR Muslim nations as well. Egypt is "borderline"... I consider it North Africa, but it's definitely "middle east" in many ways as well, so that's debateable.

But if you feel that there's a "more restrictive" definition of what makes up the region, I'd be interested in hearing it.

 

[Kegek]

^
If you mean religiously and culturally, then Egypt is 'Middle East' in the same way arguably the rest of North Africa is.

Pakistanis can be Hindus as well as Christian. It's a MAJORITY Muslim country, not an ALL-Muslim one.

True. There are also Jainists, Christians, and so on. But the reason Pakistan was created to begin with was to provide a homeland to Muslim Indians, as distinct from the Hindu Indians in what is now India. But all of this is entirely moot. We know the ethnicity of the actor; but not the race or nationality he will be playing - which may not even be Pakistani to begin with.

 

[indranee]

Pakistanis can be Hindus as well as Christian. It's a MAJORITY Muslim country, not an ALL-Muslim one.

and for the last time, BBSpeople, it's NOT A MIDDLE EASTERN NATION!

The Dhimi population in Pakistan is a bit larger than in other muslim nations (ie, Iran) in the area, that's true... but it's not like the minorities are treated equally... just to be clear.

I think of the "middle east" as ending at the Pakistan/India border, and stretching upwards into Kazakhstan and the other former-USSR Muslim nations as well. Egypt is "borderline"... I consider it North Africa, but it's definitely "middle east" in many ways as well, so that's debateable.

But if you feel that there's a "more restrictive" definition of what makes up the region, I'd be interested in hearing it.

you can call it "the middle east" if you want. it still does not make you correct. the population of Pakistan is SOUTH ASIAN in ethnicity. there may be mixtures in the Baluchi/northwestern frontier, esp, in the Pathhan areas, but on the whole, including the biggest urban areas, in cultural mythos, food, music, literature, national dynamics AND politics (despite the spotty military rules) -- the country reeks of South Asia. if you and other Americans keep making this mistake, you're bigger idiots than the rest of the world thinks you are.

 

[indranee]

^
If you mean religiously and culturally, then Egypt is 'Middle East' in the same way arguably the rest of North Africa is.

Pakistanis can be Hindus as well as Christian. It's a MAJORITY Muslim country, not an ALL-Muslim one.

True. There are also Jainists, Christians, and so on. But the reason Pakistan was created to begin with was to provide a homeland to Muslim Indians, as distinct from the Hindu Indians in what is now India. But all of this is entirely moot. We know the ethnicity of the actor; but not the race or nationality he will be playing - which may not even be Pakistani to begin with.

agreed on all counts of your post, Kegek.

 

[Cyrus]

you can call it "the middle east" if you want. it still does not make you correct. the population of Pakistan is SOUTH ASIAN in ethnicity.

I don't believe the term middle east is related to the ethnicity of the countries. To me it has always been a region that connects 3 continents (Europe, Asia, Africa, though it's mostly in Asia), so it has always had great strategic value and various empires have tried to conquer/control it throughout history. It has no clear boundaries, so that's why people make different assumptions about it. But I think it generally refers to the region that stretches from Egypt & Turkey to Iran and including the Arabian peninsula. So you are right that Pakistan is generally not considered a middle eastern country.

 

[Capt.April]

I was going to mention TVH Indian Captain but you guys beat me to it. That movie also opened with a hefty black woman as Captain of the USS Saratoga which I thought was a great move (theatre I saw it in had the whole audience whoopin' & hollerin' at that one, in a good way ) I wanted to mention TOS ep. "Court Martial", check out the federation captains in the court scenes. I'm surprised NBC didn't freak at that one! I'm assuming they just didn't notice (which is good) or their collectives mouths were just hanging open and they didn't manage to slash it before it was transmitted.. hee..hee.

 

[Capt.April]

Oh, and one last point. Check out the first season of TOS and you'll notce a heck of allot of Asians in the background. I believe I saw an inverview with Roddenberry were he mentioned that if the Enterprise was supposed to be a microcosm of earth then at least 50% of the crew would have to be Chinese so I think he was trying to sneak that in with the Asian heavy background extras. Many people don't notice today but I did back in the late '60's and I thought it was a great idea it made the show feel more global and less Holywood American.

 

[Michael]

^Really? I don't recall one. Examples?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Pakistanis can be Hindus as well as Christian. It's a MAJORITY Muslim country, not an ALL-Muslim one.

and for the last time, BBSpeople, it's NOT A MIDDLE EASTERN NATION!

The Dhimi population in Pakistan is a bit larger than in other muslim nations (ie, Iran) in the area, that's true... but it's not like the minorities are treated equally... just to be clear.

I think of the "middle east" as ending at the Pakistan/India border, and stretching upwards into Kazakhstan and the other former-USSR Muslim nations as well. Egypt is "borderline"... I consider it North Africa, but it's definitely "middle east" in many ways as well, so that's debateable.

But if you feel that there's a "more restrictive" definition of what makes up the region, I'd be interested in hearing it.

you can call it "the middle east" if you want. it still does not make you correct. the population of Pakistan is SOUTH ASIAN in ethnicity. there may be mixtures in the Baluchi/northwestern frontier, esp, in the Pathhan areas, but on the whole, including the biggest urban areas, in cultural mythos, food, music, literature, national dynamics AND politics (despite the spotty military rules) -- the country reeks of South Asia.

I've been to the area (I get the impression, from your name, that you may be from, or be descended from, that region?).

You're drawing your take from the ethnicity of the majority population. Which is a perfectly valid way to look at it, but not the ONLY way.

Ethnicity is no more, and no less, valid than geopolitical realities. We in the USA tend to care a bit less about ethnicity, being as we're all pretty much "mutts," while people in other parts of the world (where there's a much closer tie of ethnicity to region) may consider it more relevant.

"Middle east" refers to the GEOGRAPHICAL and POLITICAL characteristics of the region. And as such, it is perfectly valid and meaningful.

"Middle east" does NOT refer to the ethnicity of the population (or the majority thereof).

It is a true statement, however, that there are at least as many cultural similarities between Tunisia and Pakistan as there are between India and Pakistan... wouldn't you agree?

if you and other Americans keep making this mistake, you're bigger idiots than the rest of the world thinks you are.

Since it is NOT A MISTAKE... I'd have to say that no, we're not. But thanks for being both incorrect and insulting in a single statement. :thumbsup:

 

[Capt.April]

^Really? I don't recall one. Examples?

Do you mean the Asian guys as extras?

Outside of "The Cage" pretty obvious in transporter room.
"Charlie X" corridor crew members.
"Court Martial" starbase
"Balance of Terror" crew scene wedding.
etc..

As they moved to the second and third season I noticed this disappeared and we're left with many white guys as extras. Although it was cool getting Dr.M'benga (spelling) into the sick bay. I wished they'd expanded his character I think he was supposed to be a regular after awhile.

 

[indranee]

The Dhimi population in Pakistan is a bit larger than in other muslim nations (ie, Iran) in the area, that's true... but it's not like the minorities are treated equally... just to be clear.

I think of the "middle east" as ending at the Pakistan/India border, and stretching upwards into Kazakhstan and the other former-USSR Muslim nations as well. Egypt is "borderline"... I consider it North Africa, but it's definitely "middle east" in many ways as well, so that's debateable.

But if you feel that there's a "more restrictive" definition of what makes up the region, I'd be interested in hearing it.

you can call it "the middle east" if you want. it still does not make you correct. the population of Pakistan is SOUTH ASIAN in ethnicity. there may be mixtures in the Baluchi/northwestern frontier, esp, in the Pathhan areas, but on the whole, including the biggest urban areas, in cultural mythos, food, music, literature, national dynamics AND politics (despite the spotty military rules) -- the country reeks of South Asia.

I've been to the area (I get the impression, from your name, that you may be from, or be descended from, that region?).

You're drawing your take from the ethnicity of the majority population. Which is a perfectly valid way to look at it, but not the ONLY way.

Ethnicity is no more, and no less, valid than geopolitical realities. We in the USA tend to care a bit less about ethnicity, being as we're all pretty much "mutts," while people in other parts of the world (where there's a much closer tie of ethnicity to region) may consider it more relevant.

"Middle east" refers to the GEOGRAPHICAL and POLITICAL characteristics of the region. And as such, it is perfectly valid and meaningful.

"Middle east" does NOT refer to the ethnicity of the population (or the majority thereof).

It is a true statement, however, that there are at least as many cultural similarities between Tunisia and Pakistan as there are between India and Pakistan... wouldn't you agree?

if you and other Americans keep making this mistake, you're bigger idiots than the rest of the world thinks you are.

Since it is NOT A MISTAKE... I'd have to say that no, we're not. But thanks for being both incorrect and insulting in a single statement. :thumbsup:

I did mean to be insulting but I was not incorrect. one look at right wing talk radio should prove me right many times over

BTW, Pakistan is NOT culturally as similar to Tunisia as it is to India. I challenge you to cite your claim.

now, as far as the geopolitical characteristics of the region, it is Bush-Cheney policy to lump Pakistan into the Middle East family because it helps THEIR "terror" agenda. But, again, GEOPOLITICALLY, that theory doesn't hold any amount of water, only OPPORTUNISTICALLY.

however, you CAN equate Afghani/Iranian geopolitical dynamics with Pakistan and call it "South-West Asia".

and, yes, I am Indian-American.

 

[Kegek]

"Middle east" refers to the GEOGRAPHICAL and POLITICAL characteristics of the region. And as such, it is perfectly valid and meaningful.

Political, perhaps. But geographically, no. Pakistan is part of the Indian subcontinent, not the Middle East. It's certainly a predominantly Muslim country, so I can see the political rationale for that statement; but not the geographic one.