Pain... Terrible pain! (TFA spoilers)

[Gaith]

So, I haven't yet participated or even read much about The Force Awakens here on this site. (Suffice to say I thought it was a very competently made, soulless and unimaginative product - not in any way awful, like Terminator Genisys, but nowhere near as inspired as Jurassic World.) But I'm not here to debate the artistry of the movie itself so much as to ask a question I don't think has been covered in its own thread (I've looked, but not too extensively).

Namely, is anyone else, besides Rob Bricken, disgusted by what TFA and the new canon did to Han, Luke, and Leia? They may have done a lot of beings in the galaxy a great lot of good at Endor, but we now know there's no happy ending for them - Han and Leia's son becomes a school shooter (or "cutter", I guess), they break up, and Luke pulls a Yoda/Obi-Wan and apparently futzes around and meditates as the Empire builds a new Death Star and decimates several planets. It pretty much seems everyone would be happier if they'd gone their separate ways after the Ewok party, and never seen each other again.

Even apart from my indifference to TFA as a flick, I'm not sure I can forgive this, and enjoy the next Episodes. If the necessary price to pay for competently made RotJ sequels was the ruination of our Big Three's lives, for myself at least, I suspect that price was too high.

Anyone else?

 

[Richard Baker]

OK-
now I'm depressed.

 

[Kor]

I like stories that subvert our hopes and expectations by taking things that we know, love and cherish, and turning them completely sideways and upside down.

The old heroes have already had their day. It's time for them to move aside and make way for the new ones.

Kor

 

[JD]

I wasn't bothered by it. They needed to have the old heroes in a place that the new characters would have to be the ones to step up and save the day.

 

[Set Harth]

I'm only bothered by the fact that ( as far as we know ) Mark and Harrison will never share a scene again.

I wonder what they thought about that when they read the script.

 

[Tosk]

but nowhere near as inspired as Jurassic World.)

Are you sure you didn't mean insipid?

 

[Gaith]

^ Hey, at least Jurassic World didn't tell us that Tim became a convicted child molester and Lex died while drunk driving in college.

 

[fireproof78]

So, I haven't yet participated or even read much about The Force Awakens here on this site. (Suffice to say I thought it was a very competently made, soulless and unimaginative product - not in any way awful, like Terminator Genisys, but nowhere near as inspired as Jurassic World.) But I'm not here to debate the artistry of the movie itself so much as to ask a question I don't think has been covered in its own thread (I've looked, but not too extensively).

Namely, is anyone else, besides Rob Bricken, disgusted by what TFA and the new canon did to Han, Luke, and Leia? They may have done a lot of beings in the galaxy a great lot of good at Endor, but we now know there's no happy ending for them - Han and Leia's son becomes a school shooter (or "cutter", I guess), they break up, and Luke pulls a Yoda/Obi-Wan and apparently futzes around and meditates as the Empire builds a new Death Star and decimates several planets. It pretty much seems everyone would be happier if they'd gone their separate ways after the Ewok party, and never seen each other again.

Even apart from my indifference to TFA as a flick, I'm not sure I can forgive this, and enjoy the next Episodes. If the necessary price to pay for competently made RotJ sequels was the ruination of our Big Three's lives, for myself at least, I suspect that price was too high.

Anyone else?

I do have some of that feeling when I think about the ending of ROTJ and how TFA really takes away some of the victory at the end of the film. I've discussed this with a coworker of mine, and he had the point that that's realistic, though. Not every aspect of life has the happy ending that I really, really want. I prefer the happy endings in films, but I can also recognize the realism of what happens in TFA-that there are political power plays and that evil will rise again. Unfortunately, unless you sideline or kill off the OT cast to make way for the new guys, but not violate what they accomplished.

In that way, I would say that you would not have Kylo Ren's background, and can keep Leia as a general, but not really have too much of her or the other two in leadership positions like she is, but not terribly active. And yes, I realize Luke's involvement as it is now is not much, but TFA could have had him as more of the wise old guy Jedi.

To answer the OP question, I'm not sure if the price was too high. I really don't know if I can answer that until the trilogy is completed. Is it worth it? I don't know because I don't know how the story ends. Part of me doesn't think ESB is worth ruining the victory in the original SW victory either.

 

[HIjol]

I like stories that subvert our hopes and expectations by taking things that we know, love and cherish, and turning them completely sideways and upside down.

The old heroes have already had their day. It's time for them to move aside and make way for the new ones.

Kor

I like this thought, and I find myself in agreement with some of Gaith's sentiments, but, regarding this post, Kor, the old heroes have clearly been moved aside...for my part, in TFA, I did not feel that I recognized any new heroes. Kylo and Ren played pretty well, but heroic? I don't know...Maybe I need to wait for the next one.

 

[JD]

Do you mean Rey?

I do have some of that feeling when I think about the ending of ROTJ and how TFA really takes away some of the victory at the end of the film. I've discussed this with a coworker of mine, and he had the point that that's realistic, though. Not every aspect of life has the happy ending that I really, really want. I prefer the happy endings in films, but I can also recognize the realism of what happens in TFA-that there are political power plays and that evil will rise again. Unfortunately, unless you sideline or kill off the OT cast to make way for the new guys, but not violate what they accomplished.

In that way, I would say that you would not have Kylo Ren's background, and can keep Leia as a general, but not really have too much of her or the other two in leadership positions like she is, but not terribly active. And yes, I realize Luke's involvement as it is now is not much, but TFA could have had him as more of the wise old guy Jedi.

It does look like that is probably the role Luke is going to play in VIII. Hmm, I just realized, we had Han with the biggest focus of the big three in TFA, and based off of the end it looks like Luke will have a big focus in VIII, so I wonder if that means Leia will get a bigger role in IX?

 

[Tosk]

I did not feel that I recognized any new heroes. Kylo and Ren played pretty well, but heroic?

I should hope not, Kylo Ren is a bad guy.

 

[Gaith]

The old heroes have already had their day. It's time for them to move aside and make way for the new ones.

Honoring their saints by setting 'em on fire. Lets you know what they think of saints, doesn't it?
​

I wasn't bothered by it. They needed to have the old heroes in a place that the new characters would have to be the ones to step up and save the day.

The story could have been different... on my other board, I pitched an alternate take that focused pretty much entirely on Rey fighting an injustice in a galaxy in which Luke's Jedi academy is operational, but far from large enough to solve all the worlds' injustices. So she'd go about her struggle alone, using and learning the Force as best she could by herself, and then, at the very end, when all hope is lost... Luke and a few of his Jedi do show up and save the day! And Rey is invited to join the academy! Credits.

Of course, that would have been a much smaller-scale movie, and would probably have made a good deal less money. If I were a Disney shareholder, I'd be delighted with what JJ and Co. wrought - a product that gave most viewers exactly what they wanted (more lightsabers, X-Wings, Han and Chewie). As a fan of the OT, however, I felt used and pandered to. But then, since I have Zahn's Thrawn trilogy, I frankly didn't really want these new Episodes in the first place, ergo, more fool me for buying the ticket, I guess...

 

[HIjol]

Do you mean Rey?

It does look like that is probably the role Luke is going to play in VIII. Hmm, I just realized, we had Han with the biggest focus of the big three in TFA, and based off of the end it looks like Luke will have a big focus in VIII, so I wonder if that means Leia will get a bigger role in IX?

I should hope not, Kylo Ren is a bad guy.

Thank you...once again, did not notice the iPAD spell correct!

 

[Ithekro]

If I recall the old EU correctly, the Heroes of Yavin suffered far more than what they suffer in the lead up to the Force Awaken. Decades of wars following Endor. Kidnapping plots for a decade and a half to get the Solo children. Deaths of family members, breaks in the family. Betrayal. Falling to the Dark Side (several times). And even after the Empire finally surrenders, there are just more enemies, larger wars. Massive scale destructions that make the Death Star look like a toy.

About the only thing that didn't happen in the EU verse the Force Awakens is what happens to Han Solo. Instead it was Chewbacca with more dramatic flair and no betrayal. The betrayal of family still happens, it just doesn't happen directly to Han Solo at saber point.

The situation might be better in the EU, depending on your point of view, but they suffered far worse in the old EU than in the new Canon...as far as we know to date.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Maybe TFA should have just started in the happy everafter, and ended in the happy everafter without ever leaving the happy everafter. And no villains too.

I don't think it's possible to have a new Star Wars film without setting the universe on fire. The part where they literally did set it on fire may be the only part that I felt going too far, but even that I've since accepted. I cannot be pained so much about the lives of our heroes, when after everything won in ROTJ whole planets full of people are still getting burned to death by superweapons – a far greater let down, which only made me like the film more. Leia and Han broke up and their son turned bad? I am sorry, billions of people just died. I am glad they are back preventing billions more from dying. This means more for their characters than any personal happiness would. Even if they were still together and had a jolly good son, I highly doubt the story would have had them take the backseat to watch the universe burn while rejoicing in their happiness. It would have only made the tale less emotional and less exciting.

It's difficult to have a good story that's focused on not breaking our fragile nostalgia, and maintaining the happiness of our past heroes, and that would be very strange is the world is on fire in the meantime. Not even the real world works like that – and it's already a big leap that all past heroes are back at all. And I don't think the OT was ever about them being happy in the first place. Was Luke ever personally happy in it – he had lost all he once had forever, the only thing he had left at the end was that he had saved the world.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm sure we'll see lots of Luke and Han together in the EP8 flashbacks. Harrison Ford is signed for EP8.
It's tragic what happened to them, but Star Wars is a war story. In war, people suffer and die or there's no drama or stakes.

 

[B.J.]

Considering the age of Kylo Ren, I don't think things went off the rails for the OT heroes until a bit more recently. It's been 30 years, and I'm guessing at least 15-20 of those were "good times" for them.

 

[Makarov]

Terminator Genisys is underrated - it's the best one after T2.

As for the main characters well... if you want to make an omelette you've gotta break a few eggs. I guess I was never that invested in their happily ever after.

 

[Jedi_Master]

The OP needs a hug.

 

[Gaith]

If I recall the old EU correctly, the Heroes of Yavin suffered far more than what they suffer in the lead up to the Force Awaken.

Well, I certainly don't truck with the whole old EU. The OT, the Thrawn Trilogy, and maybe Shadows of the Empire, and that's about enough for moi.

I am glad they are back preventing billions more from dying. This means more for their characters than any personal happiness would. Even if they were still together and had a jolly good son, I highly doubt the story would have had them take the backseat to watch the universe burn while rejoicing in their happiness.

Funny, I seem to remember a movie called Star Wars ending with hugs, smiles, and an awards ceremony, even though an entire planet of people had been murdered just a day or two before...

And I don't think the OT was ever about them being happy in the first place. Was Luke ever personally happy in it – he had lost all he once had forever, the only thing he had left at the end was that he had saved the world.

He escaped his dull backwater planet, found a family, became a hero, and helped defeat the devil. Yeah, I'd say that by the end of RotJ, it's not unreasonable to think of him as happy.

It's tragic what happened to them, but Star Wars is a war story.

Eh, back in the day it was a lighthearted space fairy tale about sneaking through a castle to rescue a princess, and then it became an operatic family drama, but was still pretty cheery. It's by accumulation of storytelling that the universe keeps getting darker. I'm reminded of Smallville, which started out as a lighthearted show about a teenage Clark Kent. By the end of the third season, though, everyone (both our main characters and the town around them) had gone through so much crap everyone was more or less miserable and the show felt very different.

Sometimes it's okay to let a story end, or at the very least to shift the focus to a new family and leave the old one in relative peace. I for one don't need a Middle Earth sequel in which Samwise's son starts worshipping Melkor, murders his hobbit classmates, and a new dark wizard destroys all of Gondor in one shot...