It would have been interesting if they'd made it an interactive hologram, like that one of Soong in "Inheritance".
P/C run amok...
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Ah, the vexed eye colour issue. Plenty of fanfiction written by the "Jean-Luc is Wesley's father" crowd has used the blue eyes thing as a key element of their argument. Usually, sometime around Wesley's 20th birthday, Jean-Luc finally remembers his elementary biology, and starts to get a wee bit suspicious...
I don't buy that argument, but I agree that it was definitely a major mistake on the part of the casting people. Somehow I think that the blue eyes were used to reinforce the image that they were conveying of Jack: the handsome blue-eyed boy, too good to live long, and all that. But they could have done that easily by just writing the character better. Alas...
Yes I was trying to think of that example. Soong could of course do anything. Jack wasn't much better in Journey's End IMO. I guess the actor just repeated his other worldly approach to the role.
I'm more inclined to forgive Jack as portrayed in Journey's End, because he was after all A HALLUCINATION. Do you think that the real Jack Crusher would just stand there calmly intoning "find your own path, Wesley"? I don't think so! It's very likely that he would have reacted in the exact same way that Bev and Jean-Luc did. Thus, I rest my case. 
Personally I think he was A FAKE. Just something the Traveller cooked up to make Wesley go with him. I agree that it's unlikely he'd have had a different reaction to Wes's 'real' parents though.
^ Well. I never found the argument that he was following Jack very convincing. If anything he was trying damn hard to follow Picard. It was his approval and respect he sought.
^^^ Exactly. From the evidence of The Bonding (I think it was), it's obvious that he barely remembers Jack. You can see that in Encounter at Farpoint, Wesley is casting around in search of a male role model. His first choice is Riker, but he has to settle for Picard, given that his mom is mysteriously not interested in the handsome young second in command!
In other news, our 'ship seems to be losing, albeit narrowly, to R/T in the poll. Horrors! Do you think that people find R/T more satisfying simply because they got together in the end, because they don't like the idea of Picard having a love life, or what?
In other news, our 'ship seems to be losing, albeit narrowly, to R/T in the poll. Horrors! Do you think that people find R/T more satisfying simply because they got together in the end, because they don't like the idea of Picard having a love life, or what?
WEll i like p/c more than r/t but that DOESN'T mean i am a shipper 
^ Oh quite. There's more to Star trek than the boy and girl relationships (wonders if this would constitute a warning for trolling had it been the Ent forum?), but it's occasionally fun to take time out from more serious matters to speculate.
As the the P/C R/T poll, I think it's just that R/T appears in more episodes and is more consistently handled.
As the the P/C R/T poll, I think it's just that R/T appears in more episodes and is more consistently handled.
I sort of got the impression with R/T that it was destined to be, while P/C was more of a maybe.
There was certainly the fact that Riker and Troi were each other's "Imzadi," and thus soul mates no matter what guest stars appeared along the way. With P/C, Beverly already had a dead husband, whom she presumably loved deeply, and whom she in fact seems to have never stopped mourning. A lot of P/C fanfic writers don't really know what to do with Jack, and end up implying that she regretted the marriage, that it was a very troubled relationship, just to make the P/C thing look more like 'true love'. Needless to say, I completely disavow this approach.
So, how about that scene in "Timescape"? I hadn't thought about it from a shipping perspective until recently, but it's always struck me as a rather indifferent reaction ...
^Oh yeah. I'd forgotten we were going to go back to that.
Your assertion was that he didn't care. I think that's a bit harsh. Troi (who has a better understanding of the whole P/C thing than even they do) was very concerned in telling him - she knew how he'd take it. Picard is not the sort of chap to drop to his knees shouting 'why? Dear God! why her?' he likes to hide his emotions under this cloak of authority. He cared, he just didn't want to show it too much.
Your assertion was that he didn't care. I think that's a bit harsh. Troi (who has a better understanding of the whole P/C thing than even they do) was very concerned in telling him - she knew how he'd take it. Picard is not the sort of chap to drop to his knees shouting 'why? Dear God! why her?' he likes to hide his emotions under this cloak of authority. He cared, he just didn't want to show it too much.
Excellent point! Off topic, I love the way Troi goes to speak to Beverly about Jenice Manheim in We'll Always Have Paris, and Beverly replies: "I don't want to talk about what I think you mean." Which is just great.
Exactly. I think he seemed shaken in an understated sort of way. And his actions bear that out. Think about it. They had four people total to deploy, in order to figure out how to save the Enterprise, when time started to move backwards. They have one on the bridge, one in engineering, one on board the Romulan ship... and one in Sickbay purely to save Beverly. Doesn't that seem like a slightly inefficient use of resources, given that they know everyone on the Enterprise will be killed if they get it wrong? Or am I just reading too much into that?
Well, I think that he should have reacted like this ...
... or perhaps not.
I sort of got the feeling that Troi was going beyond her bounds in "We'll Always Have Paris", prying into Crusher's personal feelings for no very good reason. That was the more annoying early season Troi, of course.
... or perhaps not.
I sort of got the feeling that Troi was going beyond her bounds in "We'll Always Have Paris", prying into Crusher's personal feelings for no very good reason. That was the more annoying early season Troi, of course.
Troi does a bit of prying into Beverly's personal life both in "We'll Always Have Paris" and in "The Host". The difference between these instances is that in the first, she seems to be acting in her professional capacity, deciding of her own accord that Beverly needs counselling. Very annoying, and she shouldn't do that unless Bev is obviously failing in her duties because of her emotional state. (Which isn't true!) In the second case, she's just acting as Beverly's nosy friend, which is entirely understandable. Their relationship had developed...
On another note, has anyone seen the P/C moments in the first draft of "First Contact"? We have the following exchange, when Picard is asking about Cochrane:
And then the following exchange later on:
On the down side, the script does feature Ruby returning to the 24th century with Picard, like Gillian with Kirk in The Voyage Home. But then, we never expected that TPTB would do things properly, did we?
Did I miss an episode? When were Picard and Crusher involved? Have we hung on every word and look for all these years only to find they got it on in-between films?[ratbag nitpick mode] That's not how you spell chagrined...[/ratbag nitpick mode]
Didn't you realise that they got together immediately after AGT? They were having a little spat during Generations, and broke up right before First Contact. This explains why Picard was in such a bad mood for the whole of that movie, and why Beverly, in a typical midlife-crisis move, had dyed her hair blonde.Posted by mon capitaine:
Though it makes a lot of sense. All that action-hero stuff, yeah he's just on the rebound. I get it now. Bev not being the one to tell him he's wrong about blowing up the ship - well you wouldn't be able to if you've just broken up with the guy. He's pretty snippy towards her during that film too isn't he? Honestly I think you've struck gold!Nothing wrong being blonde though - don't know what you mean there
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