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Outside The Galaxy?

Lindley said:
Not if they're pulsing red light, no.

If they're simply energy fields which appear red due to creating license, but are actually light-permeable, then who knows....
In fact, the appearance must be in good part dramatic license: while deflectors say there's something there, sensors say there isn't. They don't radiate in any scheme the sensors routinely detect: Spock explicitly denies this. And they have either no density and no energy at all, or else their density and energy have negative values (Spock's statement there is unfortunately ambiguous; some interesting cosmological effects exist if there is a meaningful negative energy).

They wouldn't necessarily form a noticeable barrier to extragalactic astronomy either, provided the dimming and blurring of light were a stable and reasonably uniform phenomenon. (And provided it's out there already: it might not have formed yet. And provided that it's a real-space phenomenon rather than something obvious in subspace, which we have no known methods of detecting at present for good reason.) We'd just estimate the universe to be larger than it actually is, as extragalactic bodies would be dimmer than would appear without the barrier.

The ``atmospheric'' effects of turbulence within the barrier, if it blurs or distorts light coming from outside the galaxy, would not necessarily stand out: while atmospheric turbulence is a nuisance for telescopes on the Earth looking up, it's not as urgent a problem for telescopes in orbit looking down, where the atmosphere is more like a slender largely-translucent phenomenon at the focal length.

I'm suspicious of the barrier at the edge of the galaxy, but I can't say offhand that it's an utterly impossible thing.
 
I look at the Barriers as being just as viable as beings such as Q, Trelane, and other concepts that are more fiction than science.

That being said, I think the Galactic Barrier only appears as a ribbon at a certain angle (humor me here!) and only lights up the immediate space around a vessel attempting to penetrate it.

The Great Barrier is clearly a result of all the pot smoke from the 60's manifesting itself thousands of light-years from Earth around the galactic core...
 
“Space is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.”
 
Jamaica Jive said:
“Space is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.”

I want to do a fanvid where Picard intones that in a very dignified way, over the opening Next Gen credits!

extragalactic bodies would be dimmer than would appear without the barrier.

This entire thread is full of good ideas such as that. (I didn't quote enough of it, sorry.) I think this is my favorite thread here, ever. As for the person who wants us to know that ST has little to do with science and is full of magical beings, feh! The barrier(s) was a viable enough idea to warrant and generate a thread full of very interesting and creative speculation. This is what science-fiction is all about.

Those seemingly all-powerful beings are solid SF, because they aren't there just to be "magical" and create threats for some "space adventure". It's always been a part of SF to speculate about much more advanced technology, which reaches the point where it's so advanced that it's incomprehensible to us, and appears to us like magic. Writing SF involves leaps of imagination such as that, unless one is writing about the immediate future or present... because looking that far down the road is important.

So-- including these powerful beings in stories doesn't mean we can just throw all the "rules" and believability out the window. Sense and logic and continuity still matter in ST stories.
 
Maybe the galactic berrier is the cosmic counterpart to the 'bozone' layer that surrounds the Earth and protects the rest of the galaxy from the harmful effects of humans?
 
As Unknown Sample wrote, there are some SF writers that lean toward good, hard science against which to put their stories that in turn make them all the more interesting and believable, IMMHO.

As one who fell in love with astronomy because of STAR TREK, if I can ever make it to 100 posts, I will put up an avatar of a star I yanked off of the Hubble website -- yes, she's 15 years old this year. Hard for me to believe.

As re: the great galactic barrier, it makes for nice SF stories, but at this time there is no evidence using Hubble and her two sister telescopes (I forget their names) which look out into deep space with spectrometers and X-ray to conclude that there is any sort of "barriers" between the galaxies. On the contrary, at this very moment, there is a galaxy whipping through another -- according to the astronomer in the interview, "stripping the younger, weaker galaxy of all its planet-making material and energy."

If anyone is interested, PM me and I'll try to locate this information again. :bolian:
 
Galaxies collide much more often than individual stars apparently, and it's possible or likely for two galaxies to pass right through each other without any two stars in them colliding.

I went to Wikipedia for an image of the Barrier, and then was treated to an image of it from "remastered" WNMHGB. I got genuinely furious. That's one of the great images of all time, and they changed into some generic belt of gas, or generic "vortex" or whatever the hell it was. They took inspiration and beat it down into the ground, and made it flat and bland and ordinary. Just some run-of-the-mill "anomaly" , some glowing "stuff" that they'd throw into a random Voyager episode.
 
UnknownSample said:

I went to Wikipedia for an image of the Barrier, and then was treated to an image of it from "remastered" WNMHGB.

Well, of course! Its CGI, so it must be better than the original...
 
EliyahuQeoni said:
UnknownSample said:

I went to Wikipedia for an image of the Barrier, and then was treated to an image of it from "remastered" WNMHGB.

Well, of course! Its CGI, so it must be better than the original...

I hope to God that this is sarcasm...
 
... and I'm not sure that in ``Is There No Truth In Beauty'' they got through the barrier. I think they ended up just stuck midway through.
That's "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" which is quite a different thing than beauty in truth! :D

And is that episode I don't think they left the galaxy by means of driving in a straight line out of it, more like the warped right out of space as we know it:

We are evidently far outside our own galaxy, Judging from the lack of traceable reference points. When we exceeded warp speed factor 9.5, we apparently entered a space-time continuum.'
 
EliyahuQeoni said:
UnknownSample said:

I went to Wikipedia for an image of the Barrier, and then was treated to an image of it from "remastered" WNMHGB.
Well, of course! Its CGI, so it must be better than the original...
I hope to God that this is sarcasm...

I am pretty sure he isn't saying the show itself is better just because of CGI, I think he means the image itself.
 
Personally, I've always been happy that the Trek writers have never scratched the itch to send ships to or from other galaxies - there just so much distance between galaxies that even with Warp technology the travel time between "close" galaxies is hundreds of (human) lifetimes, which makes the trip a bit much even in the 25th century.


That said, I'd be interested to hear more from those with a background in astronomy/astrophysics as to what the scientific community thinks regarding "barriers" between galaxies. I think barrier may be a poor word of choice, but is it possible that there is some sort of energy field that borders a galaxy, or are galaxies more or less a way for humans to organize into sets the things we see in space.
 
Fire said:
I would hope that the so called great barriers are stripped from canon because theres no way the barriers could exist and not show up in telescopes, you wouldnt even be able to see other galaxys beyond our own.
That would be good. I always found the barriers, while fascinating, a bit problematic for some of the reasons you cited.

As to the O.P.'s question, I think the furthest any Federation ship has been was Picar'd Enterprise in "Where No One Has Gone Before." In addition to ending up in Galaxy M-33, they also entered a realm so far away that their every thought became reality. They didn't mention how far away that was from the Milky Way.

Red Ranger

They said it was more than a billion light years from the Milky Way.
 
Didn't the Cytherians use Barclay to bring the Enterprise to their galaxy? That wasn't the Milky Way in "The Nth Degree", was it?
 
UnknownSample said:

I went to Wikipedia for an image of the Barrier, and then was treated to an image of it from "remastered" WNMHGB.

Well, of course! Its CGI, so it must be better than the original...

And in fact, in this case it is.

The original "Galactic Barrier" effect was pretty bad - not to mention the fact that every time a reasonable person looks at it they have to ask "why don't they just go over or under it?" :lol:
 
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