Bok wouldn’t have really appreciated the gesture from his hypothetical daughter. She’s a feeemale…
Out of all the enemies which could have potentially returned in Generations…
- Thread starter Timofnine
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I wouldn't mind if Armus had been made use of TBH; maybe have him taking over a ship and its crew (to make use of the X-Files "oil" idea mentioned a few pages back). They could have either had a new spin on the whole "starship vs starship" trope from TWOK, or even had him infest a non-Starfleet vessel, if TPTB wanted to use a new or existing alien race.
Plus, by keeping 90% of the scenes as an upscaled "bottle episode" instead of on so much location shooting they might have had more spare cash for effects, or to spend on accommodating Kirk et.al... (though in this scenario I haven't the foggiest idea of how or why they'd so so LOL)
Plus, by keeping 90% of the scenes as an upscaled "bottle episode" instead of on so much location shooting they might have had more spare cash for effects, or to spend on accommodating Kirk et.al... (though in this scenario I haven't the foggiest idea of how or why they'd so so LOL)
I read a thread on Twitter recently that made the case that since the Ferengi didn't really work out as the new Klingons on TNG, the show never really created new villains who could fill that void. They made an attempt by bringing the Romulans back, but they were never as compelling as the Klingons, plus their similar appearance to Vulcans could confuse casual fans. The Borg really only worked for one or two stories, as they came with two big handicaps: They were impersonal (fixed at different times with Locutus and the Borg Queen), and they were so uber-powerful it was tough to find plausible ways to defeat them.
So TNG became a show much more about talking and negotiating than defeating the bad guys. Yeah, we got the Cardassians in S4, but that was a bit late in the day for TNG to introduce a new major villain race. TNG's Cardassian episodes ended up being mostly setup for DS9, who used the Cardassians much better. After that, who's left? Q? He could've worked in a movie, but as has been noted upthread, he got a pretty good sendoff in "All Good Things."
There honestly isn't anyone else I think could work as a movie level villain for the TNG films. I read names like Armus, Ardra, Bok, and Nagilium and I momentarily think "...Who?" before my memory is jogged and I go "Oh yeah, that person." I could see Duras working, but he'd been pretty definitively killed off in S4. Tomalak was great, but Andreas Katsulas was probably too busy with Babylon 5 in the late 90s to do much more than his "All Good Things" cameo. (And honestly, he played Tomalak a LOT like G'Kar in that episode.) David Warner's Gul Madred could work, and it'd be fun if he'd been brought back as his third character in as many films.
But man, if the TNG movies attempted an sentient oil slick as a villain in 1994, they'd have been laughed off the screen. It didn't even work well on TV in 1988.
So TNG became a show much more about talking and negotiating than defeating the bad guys. Yeah, we got the Cardassians in S4, but that was a bit late in the day for TNG to introduce a new major villain race. TNG's Cardassian episodes ended up being mostly setup for DS9, who used the Cardassians much better. After that, who's left? Q? He could've worked in a movie, but as has been noted upthread, he got a pretty good sendoff in "All Good Things."
There honestly isn't anyone else I think could work as a movie level villain for the TNG films. I read names like Armus, Ardra, Bok, and Nagilium and I momentarily think "...Who?" before my memory is jogged and I go "Oh yeah, that person." I could see Duras working, but he'd been pretty definitively killed off in S4. Tomalak was great, but Andreas Katsulas was probably too busy with Babylon 5 in the late 90s to do much more than his "All Good Things" cameo. (And honestly, he played Tomalak a LOT like G'Kar in that episode.) David Warner's Gul Madred could work, and it'd be fun if he'd been brought back as his third character in as many films.
But man, if the TNG movies attempted an sentient oil slick as a villain in 1994, they'd have been laughed off the screen. It didn't even work well on TV in 1988.
I always found the Romulans more compelling than the Klingons, who always felt a bit 'Honor Glory Fight Fight Fight!!!' to me. I can't really speak to whether a casual viewer would really confuse the Vulcans with Romulans, especially in TNG where the Vulcans didn't have much of a presence most of the time. Otherwise, I pretty much agree..though I also think TNG did quite well for itself without having a primary recurring antagonist, especially since it tended to shy away from serialization.
Admiral Quinteros?
If they'd portrayed him the way that they did in TNG - just an impotent, sentient puddle of oil - then yes, of course they would have, and I'd be laughing too.
But I'm not suggesting anything even remotely of the sort.I'd always thought of it as an opportunity to give Armus a revamp akin to how the Klingons got upgraded for TMP, making him into a truly horrifying organism with the ability to infest/infect every sentient being it touches, using them as his limbs and senses; his limitless personal army, spreading across the galaxy like a sentient plague... Think Borg collective, except it really is just one organism speaking and acting through meat puppets, so the issue of there not being an antagonist to face off against -or a sticky pond of black goo- is done away with.
This also describes the Denevan Neural Parasites from TOS Operation: Annihilate! The Wrath of Flying Vomit?If they'd portrayed him the way that they did in TNG - just an impotent, sentient puddle of oil - then yes, of course they would have, and I'd be laughing too.
I'd always thought of it as an opportunity to give Armus a revamp akin to how the Klingons got upgraded for TMP, making him into a truly horrifying organism with the ability to infest/infect every sentient being it touches, using them as his limbs and senses; his limitless personal army, spreading across the galaxy like a sentient plague... Think Borg collective, except it really is just one organism speaking and acting through meat puppets, so the issue of there not being an antagonist to face off against -or a sticky pond of black goo- is done away with.
This also describes the Denevan Neural Parasites from TOS Operation: Annihilate! The Wrath of Flying Vomit?
Not quite the same thing to my mind, since Armus remains an individual in control of his "limbs" and arguably has more personality to interact with dramatically LOL, but yes it could be said that that was a different take on a very generalised concept.
There have certainly been others in various media since the 90s (some more similar to what I'd specifically had in mind, but regardless often used to greater effect than either the Denevan parasites or, frankly, much of what we got of the Borg...)
Another slightly different take on the generalised idea, but the Contagion parasites remain a hugely missed opportunity IMO, which both the movies and Picard S3 failed to capitalise on.
I’m not alone! Those really did look like fake vomit.This also describes the Denevan Neural Parasites from TOS Operation: Annihilate! The Wrath of Flying Vomit?
I think the story should have had a villain that wasn't central to the story in terms of driving it, like Soran, and one that was simply an obstacle to be overcome. The story should have been Spock rounding up McCoy and Scotty and asking Starfleet to assign the Enterprise-D to them for the purposes of locating James T. Kirk, lost since the tragic maiden voyage of the Enterprise-B. A new Romulan commander (perhaps played by a well-known actor) could have been after Spock and the Enterprise because this commander believes Spock has left Romulus to take secrets back to the Federation.
They should have brought back someone from the original Series not tng
That way Kirk would have had to ask Picard for help to beat him up
That way Kirk would have had to ask Picard for help to beat him up
I have thought from time to time about a Generations with Spock, but as Ambassador Spock, and only in the 24th-century part of the film. Like, he's on the Enterprise for a diplomatic mission for some reason, possibly involving Romulans, and all of the trilithium/Nexus stuff goes down.
The problem is, I've never exactly worked out what Spock does in this scenario, because audiences would want to see Kirk and Spock together one more time, so the climax of the film would be wildly different.
I struggled with that for years as well, until I realized that what Spock does is risk everything (his work toward reunification and more) to call on Starfleet to assign Picard's Enterprise to the mission of rescuing Kirk. In my take, Kirk doesn't get swept into the Nexus; instead, he disappears in a spatial rift while saving innocents also caught in that rift, one that Scotty and Spock recognize is very similar to the interphase from "The Tholian Web." When Kirk's shuttle explodes and he's believed dead, Spock very strongly feels that Kirk is still alive, but questions those feelings and ultimately allows logic and the evidence to the contrary to sway him into believing that Kirk is really dead. When the anomaly that puts Kirk into interphase reappears over eight years later, Spock realizes he was wrong, Kirk is alive, and that he must risk everything to try and save his friend.
Picard's part, meanwhile, is that he's wrestling with age and wondering if he should consider a promotion and family life with Beverly. His experience with Kirk then becomes about seeing what another captain chose, i.e., a life in the center seat above all else, leading Picard to realize he's had decades doing what Kirk did and that a family life is the best choice at this point in his life. That's the direction I see Picard heading in the films, not becoming a pale imitation of Kirk.
Those parasites and even Armus allow for great body horror…Armus would even be great for cross-overs…the Venom symbiote…the black goo from PROMETHEUS…or Species…Engineers having left Armus behind.
Woe be any Engineer that stumbles upon Armus and is rejoined…the resulting composite creature may resemble one of the best movie monsters of all time…Raatma from VHS.
Would have been a better villain but would have been too much of a Khan rehash.
Armus would have been much better for Picard instead of the Borg, though.
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