Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Yminale, Jul 9, 2013.
Or maybe people are genuinely offended by things and ideas they don't like.
I loved the original Ender quartet, and I'm excited about the film. I disagree with Card's views on gays, but I don't do boycotts of those who hold different views from me.
They're offended by ideas that aren't even in the story of Ender's Game. My favourite science-fiction author is Robert A. Heinlein and plenty of liberals hate his novels for the politics they (often arguably!) advocate. That at least on some level makes sense to me, as they don't wanna be upset by the different ideas presented.
This strikes me as absurd though. Issues like homosexuality and abortion are such down-the-line issues that if you were to boycott films produced by those you disagreed with on these issues, you wouldn't watch any big Hollywood movies.
I've heard this before elsewhere and I just don't buy it, personally. I know of a guy who runs a blog that discusses Doctor Who through a socialist/Marxist perspective, and I just find it to be grasping at straws. There's nothing political about Spearhead from Space, it's just an adventure story and trying to link it to class oppression and such just dilutes and lessens discussion of the works of art that actually are political.
Not that I necessarily judge a political work of art based on my agreement of those politics either. I can separate what the politics actually are and how well the work of art argues for it. Everyone and their mother can name ones that have terrible political viewpoints in a well executed work, but to give a counter-example, I mostly agree with the assumptions behind Fahrenheit 9/11, that George W. Bush wasn't a good President, that the War in Iraq wasn't a good thing, etc., while still disliking the cheap, tacky and embarrassing deliberate editing used to argue the case.
Personally, I don't like his films because of their merits as a film. His political views wouldn't improve or diminish my opinions on them in any way.
If I wanted to boycott everything I watch or read written by someone I disagreed with politically I'd have to give up everything but the bible and the Left Behind series. (Let's face it, sci-fi and fantasy writing is dominated by leftists.)
That said, i'm not boycotting Ender's Game. I'm just not going to see it cause i thought the book was crap.
I don't have a problem watching or reading something from someone I disagree with (Clint Eastwood, for instance) but if the person is outright hateful like Card, I have no interest in reading his stuff or watching a film of his novel.
You do know that the "evil" aliens are called "Buggers"
Some people may say that's not a bad thing. Me I think it's one good reason for piracy. I get to enjoy the movie while not giving a dime to people I disagree with. Not saying you should pirate Ender's Game
its not the film itself i'm boycotting, its the 'giving him more money to spend on hateful propaganda' part i'm concerned with.
I'm gonna regret this but... please explain?
I find it funny you take the moral highground, while openly admitting you're a thief.
What?! You didn't get that the Autons represented Communist infiltration/third column using Western consumerism as a cover to secretly promote Socialist revolutions. That the Doctor represented the British aristocracy (he is a Time LORD) and him working with Lethridge-Stewart signified the military-industrial complex. Man what were you watching
Well in Card's case it's a protest again the man's social/religious ideas, one he's publicly stated, rather than the ideas presented in his books. Has any one said Ender's Game is homophobic and that's why they are boycotting. Sounds like you've jumped to a conclusion here.
I've enjoyed both the Ender books and the Alvin books. They are among my favorites. I also like a lot of Heinlein's work, even the ones that wear their politics on their sleeves. More so in my twenties than now. Maturity might be a factor there. Also some of the idea are so farout you can't take them too seriously.
I don't know enough about various filmmaker's views on these issues to make an impact on my viewing habits. They have wisely kept them under wraps.
it's a colloquial term for sodomy.
I call it political activism.
Unbelievable. I really hope this stupid movie bombs hard and I certainly will not show tolerance towards him, how dare he even use that word? The problem is not "the issue" that was in dispute, the problem is his mindset and his intolerance, he's a raging homophobe, that hasn't changed at all.
What does he expect me to say? "Hey Card, you hate the way I am but you kinda lost on this one issue so please take my money!" Yeah, not gonna happen.
I am reminded of Fahrenheit 451. Books became illegal not because of an evil dictator but because they offended people. Part of living in a democracy means that we are all entitled to our opinions and are free to express them.
I remember when Noam Chomsky wrote a forward (afterward?) to a book by an author who claimed the holocaust did not happen. Chomsky's belief was that if this book was censored because of people's outrage than our society would be no better off than Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. Hitler and Stalin, he says, were in favor of free speech as long as they agreed with it.
Now Ender's Game really has nothing to do with Card's belief system, and the movie probably less so. The "boycott" will only draw attention to the film and serve as free advertising.
That said, anyone is free to purchase a ticket or not but I hope the boycott does not turn into something similar to the Westboro church's protests. To anyone planning to demonstrate outside theaters, I would urge you to hold your personal integrity and conduct high. Reducing yourself to shouting slurs and insults puts you on an even plane with those your are protesting against.
Well in the book they look like bugs and in the sequels they become more sympathetic with Ender helping them in various ways.
The same aliens who are revealed at the end to be unfairly treated and persecuted because of their very nature?
You jest but like that's what the blog is actually like. There's a shot in Spearhead where the black hand of one of the factory workers picks up the head of a white doll, and said shot was proclaimed as the most politically charged image in Doctor Who.
I don't want the movie to fail, because there are too many good people in it, and too many hard working people who were just doing their jobs making what the felt was a quality production. I will likely see the movie once it's out to Redbox. That's $1.28. I can live with that, and if people can go see the movie in theaters, and enjoy it, and they paid their $8-$15, I can live with that, too. Less money, more money; it doesn't change his viewpoint, but it can cause a lot of benefit or harm towards everyone else.
That is seriously reaching. The aliens just.. look like bugs. There's no homophobic agenda there at all.
Ender's Game was my most treasured book when I was a kid. It got me obsessed with science-fiction literature and was what led me to discover Frank Herbert, Isaac Asimov, Robert A Heinlein, Arthur C Clarke and eventually decide to become a writer myself. I owe Orson Scott Card so much, so it's disappointing to see him claim weird shit like gay rights weren't an issue in the 80s.
However, the idea that future generations will view Ender's Game as a homophobic parable because of liberal agenda and misunderstanding is deeply tragic to me. It's obscene.
As for the film, I'm actually worried they've dumbed it down and made it an action movie but I'll reserve judgement until I see it.
I was planning on ignoring his movie not boycotting it.
You do realize that the people calling for the boycott are also entitled to their opinions and free to express them, right? It's a two-way street, and doesn't become censorship just because you agree with one side more than the other.
Also, no one has called for the government to outlaw his books or even his hateful online and magazine writing, so the comparison to the mass censorship of Fahrenheit 451 kind of falls flat.
Because pro-gay rights supporters typically use the kind of rhetoric and tactics that Westboro does? I don't recall a lot of gay protests at the funerals of straight people or signs that say "God Hates Breeders," so what exactly is your basis for assuming that this might be an issue?
Scott has called for violent revolution against the government if it legalizes gay marriage nationwide and has advocated for the continuation of laws that put homosexuals in jail just for having sex with their loved ones. In what fairytale land have gays in large numbers advocated for anything that makes them even remotely on par with that type of hateful rhetoric?
You want to go see the movie? Fine. You don't agree with the boycott? Fine. But don't for a moment suggest that the two sides are even close to being just as bad as the other, because that's high order bullshit.
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