So, maybe they are really Ohryans and the UT just mistranslated it.
Orions & the Federation
- Thread starter Redshirt214
- Start date
So, maybe they are really Ohryans and the UT just mistranslated it.
FASA did have a field day with "O'Ryan's Planet"...
But in ENT "Minefield" we learn that Romulans are called Rumalins or somesuch in their native tongue, and T'Pol just prefers the Vulcan pronunciation Romulan. Any connection to old Earth myths or English spellings thereof appears wholly coincidental. And then there's the whole Rigel business, where the very name appears unfamiliar to Archer's team in "Broken Bow"; perhaps Earth never names space things after old Earth space terminology before asking the locals first? Or at least trusts that Vulcans always have authentic knowledge, which isn't trumped by Earth tradition even when those seemingly overlap.
Timo Saloniemi
But in ENT "Minefield" we learn that Romulans are called Rumalins or somesuch in their native tongue, and T'Pol just prefers the Vulcan pronunciation Romulan. Any connection to old Earth myths or English spellings thereof appears wholly coincidental. And then there's the whole Rigel business, where the very name appears unfamiliar to Archer's team in "Broken Bow"; perhaps Earth never names space things after old Earth space terminology before asking the locals first? Or at least trusts that Vulcans always have authentic knowledge, which isn't trumped by Earth tradition even when those seemingly overlap.
Timo Saloniemi
That's impossible, though. Hoshi has access to nothing but the proper pronunciation - she is hearing that straight from her fancy earplug, as spoken by the Romulans themselves.
T'Pol can only offer a contrarian view. A bit like Churchill liked to say "Nooozy" where a real Nazi would self-identify with the correct "Nutsy". Which is just the mirror of the Nazis saying that they were at war with puny England, not with any Great Britain or somesuch. "Proper" creates no obligation in the speaker as such.
We don't know where they come from, though. Perhaps the places are named ch'Rihan and ch'Havran by the Rumalin, but humans find amusement in renaming them as Romulus and Remus and in perverting Rumalin into Romulan. Just as possibly, though, the planets are named Rumalus and Rimus by the Rumalin, whose old visits to Earth resulted in the creation of the myth about Romulus and Remus (and in the adoption of certain Rumalin ideas by the folks who'd ultimately call themselves Romans).
Or, as said, the Romulans themselves. They were demonstrably interstellar around the heyday of the Roman Empire. Vulcans of some color were interstellar a thousand years before that, founding monasteries left and right. Earth may owe them a great deal.
Timo Saloniemi
She was listening to it quickly, perhaps staticky, perhaps accented. T’Pol helped her along. It may be silly to suggest that Romulan is their name for themselves, but that’s ENT. You know @Timo, have I told you about my time with the Gazelles of Rome...?
I suppose we must if they’re calling themselves Romulans and Remans.
Well, Romulans being Romulans is ENT only if we assume Sato had trouble hearing.
If we assume she had no such trouble, then it's not, and Romulans are Romulans only as much as Turkey is Turkey, there being no connection to Peloponnesian myths or delicious birds other than an amusing perversion of pronunciation by people who feel like perverting.
Timo Saloniemi
If we assume she had no such trouble, then it's not, and Romulans are Romulans only as much as Turkey is Turkey, there being no connection to Peloponnesian myths or delicious birds other than an amusing perversion of pronunciation by people who feel like perverting.
Timo Saloniemi
In my opinion, TOS seems to be more, first contact, we got fired at, let's run away along with finding Planet Utopia without getting blown to smithereens, which could be the reason why most of the TOS era threat forces were never really dwelt upon.
But with any wagon train, the bandits and theives always seem to show up, just past the dust on the trail being kicked up.
Weird how you assume an entire species could only ever be one thing.
I don't think it's a matter of being a "member species." How could a species be a member? It's a matter of citizenship. If you're a Federation citizen, you don't need a letter of recommendation from a command-level officer; if you aren't a citizen, you do. If you're a biological Ferengi born and raised on Earth, you're a UFP citizen and don't need a rec; if you're a biological Human born and raised on that "37s" colony in the Delta Quadrant, you're not a UFP citizen and you do need a letter of rec.
Yet if Orions are not a species, "one thing" would probably be exactly what they are. That is, "Orions" would be defined as this pirate bunch.
Which makes for an interesting question. Ensign Mallory's father "helped get" Kirk into Starfleet Academy. Did Kirk perhaps need a letter of recommendation? Were the Kirks perhaps not UFP citizens? Were they perhaps no longer UFP citizens, after the death of George? Does Jimmy's odd presence on Tarsus IV perhaps tie into his citizenship status?
Timo Saloniemi
Could Mallory's father have been the Prime universe counterpart to how Pike in the Abrams movie helped get Kirk in?
Easily.
Or then it's more complicated, or simpler: perhaps everybody needs a sponsor, in practice if not in theory, and no exceptions for citizens or anything. And this is why everybody in Starfleet knows everybody and the dads and moms of Jim Kirk and Gary Mitchell were all Fleet already.
Timo Saloniemi
Or then it's more complicated, or simpler: perhaps everybody needs a sponsor, in practice if not in theory, and no exceptions for citizens or anything. And this is why everybody in Starfleet knows everybody and the dads and moms of Jim Kirk and Gary Mitchell were all Fleet already.
Timo Saloniemi
As is the case with the US service academies. Specifically a Congressional letter of recommendation.
Yes and no, for me. I wonder if some kind of bicameral legislature would need to be set up to account for fundamental differences between alien species.
I mean, if everyone is ultimately “human,” it doesn’t matter, but how would the Great Link be counted? Or the Arcturians who reproduce by cloning and could were said to be able to produce billions of Federation soldiers almost overnight? All they’d need to do is (quietly) flood Federation worlds with more of their species and they develop a lopsided advantage.
Heck, depending on how different clones are from one another, that raises uncomfortable questions about a compromise as to how to count individual Arcturian votes.
In re: Orion coloring
Everyone seems to have forgotten that the first Orion male we ever met was Thelev (which must not have been his real name) in Journey to Babel. He was blue, and the implication I came away with was that his disguise was just a wig and some fake antennae. Thus, Orion males were blue, or that was my impression.
Then we met Marta the next season, and Orion females being green was firmly established at that time.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that the first Orion male we ever met was Thelev (which must not have been his real name) in Journey to Babel. He was blue, and the implication I came away with was that his disguise was just a wig and some fake antennae. Thus, Orion males were blue, or that was my impression.
Then we met Marta the next season, and Orion females being green was firmly established at that time.
Non cannon material states that Orions like humans have different races such as blue and Gray but the majority are Green. I think thats nice and simple
There's nothing that says Thelev didn't alter his skin colour to disguise himself as Andorian.
I still believe he did so, body paint or some futuristic way.
In my mind, Orions being UFP members is one of the things that sets the Kelvin Timeline apart. Obviously, the destruction of the Kelvin had far-reaching implications for the history of that timeline. Either one of the Kelvin survivors was around to do something that didn't happen in the Prime Timeline, or else one of the casualties wasn't around to do something, resulting in the timeline we saw in the JJ movies.
TOS was better with continuity than it gets credit for. Outside of a few bits of Early Installment Weirdness when they were still figuring the show out, they were pretty consistent with references to previous episodes, with Captain Pike named in "Mirror, Mirror", a mention of the events of "The Devil in the Dark" in the third season, and even things like the Organian Peace Treaty and mention of the Romulans using Klingon ships. They were more consistent than most shows were in their era.
It's not really the fault of TOS that the sequel shows chose to depart from it in several ways, though.
I never siad it was their fault Im just saying that Tos was not set up to create some larger universe so it was harder to follow up so TNG decided to depart from it and smooth it over. I'm talking more about the small technical aspects like Lithum crystals, confusing sector for quadrant and not having hard and fast rules. TOS had continuity thank in part to DC Fontana, but it was its own countity not something that could be expanded on so the soft rest during the TNG era was a smart move
Similar threads
