Original Crew = A Step Back?

[VulcanJedi]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I haven't made up my mind yet. There were no women in leadership roles. The female character with the most screentime stripped onscreen and wore a mini-skirt for most of the movie. Kirk's mother proposed a name for Kirk, and then his father totally blew her off.

However, there were no blatantly sexist remarks or anything, so it's tough to outright label the movie as sexist.

What do you think?

I think in some ways--it is sexist. Real life is sexist.

People are sexist.

 

[T'Paul]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

How so?

There were no women in leadership roles, I can't remember any females participating in any of the action scenes, there were barely any women on the bridge, Kirk groped Uhura, etc..

 

[Michael Chris]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I still don't see how that relates to sexism so much as opposed to a portrayal consistent with TOS. but then what do I know? I'm sexist!

 

[T'Paul]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I still don't see how that relates to sexism so much as opposed to a portrayal consistent with TOS. but then what do I know? I'm sexist!

I do think that a lot of it is related to trying to be accurate to TOS.

However, don't you think it would be racist if Disney did a Dumbo remake and kept in the jive-talking crows?

 

[Michael Chris]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I don't know what jive-talking is so I can't comment!

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

Much to my shock, I guess I'm sexist too. Because it does not bother me in the slightest that the characters are (*gasp*) the same genders they were in TOS.

I mean, speaking as a female, I just don't see the potential draw in being named "James".

But what do I know?

 

[Borgminister]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I want Yeoman Rand(y)!

 

[ST-One]

Well, the darn movie has finally come out, and after seeing it two times (One regular, one Imax) I have the following things to say.

My fears of Star Trek taking a step back in the gender representation has unfortunately been well founded. Of all the female roles that were featured in this movie, only one was made to have any outgoing significance outside of dying. That character is, of course, Uhura. Literally the only female character in a cast of all male characters. And what does she do? Get a station on the Enterprise that limits her to answering phone calls and watching what goes on on the bridge.

Let me try to identify other female characters here as well.

-Winona Kirk. Gives Birth to James T. Kirk and after the opening sequence is only mentioned once and never seen nor heard from again. At least when Spock's mother died, Sarek was there for him. Kirk's mother? Not in the slightest.
- Amanda Grayson. Purpose in film is to simply get Spock angry at Kirk after her death. She is Star Trek's 1 of 2 WiR.
- Transporter Tech. Does her best to lock onto Kirk and Sulu but is booted out of her station by Chekov and is never seen again. You could say that Uhura booted that communications guy off of his station, but she didn't do anything once she took the post.
- The Orion Girl. Only purpose in the film is to show off some fan service. Is commissioned to a ship that is later destroyed and forgotten.
- Nero's Wife. The second WiR. Talk about throwing as many cliché elements into a character's tragic past just for making him angry. I was almost expecting Nero to list all sorts of convenient information that would make this more tragic. At least Khan's wife had a name.
- Romulan played by Lucia Rijker. The only female crew member on board the Narada has a role that's equal to "BLINK and you'll miss it".
- Mini-skirts. Iconic? Yes. Realistic? No.

Those left behind.

- Nurse Chappel. Was she even in this? Everyone says there's something in this movie that involves her but I cannot find anything remotely resembling Nurse Chapel or even a mention of her name.
- Number One. Not only is she the first female character in Star Trek, but also the first "First Officer" of the Enterprise. Do we get her? No, we get Chekov and Sulu. Why? Because we want as all of the original series' 2nd season and after characters.
- Carol Marcus. Instead of her being in the movie, we get the Orion girl. And why not? Carol was a woman of action and authority in Khan while Orion girls are pretty much just alien.......you get the picture.
- Kaleh. The other female member of the Romulan crew who does more work at her station in Countdown comics than Uhura does in the entire movie. After the Narada gets sucked into the distant past via the black hole again, she leads four other Narada crew members to try and warn Vulcan of Nero's still insane quest to eliminate Romulas' future threats. Can you believe this? The most interesting female character in the whole god-dang story isn't even in the movie. It's up to fan's interpretation of Canon whether or not she even exists.

If Fate and Destiny are absolute entities in the way our two glorious writers explain them to be, they're obviously sexist.

 

[Count Zero]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

There was no hint that women were excluded from any positions in Starfleet. We only got to see a non-representative, small part of the universe.

As for stereotypical depiction: do you have anything specific in mind? Because I'm drawing a blank, here.
If you're fluent in German, watch the episode "Kampf um die Sonne" of the series Raumpatrouille Orion for a textbook example of sexism. If you aren't, just watch a bunch of TOS episodes. The movie wasn't sexist.

 

[Belryan]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

I did not find it sexist. I do found the percentage of women too small.

Yep. Note to JJ: NEED MORE WOMEN. Only 3 women characters and 2 of them are now dead.

Uhura rocked. But we need more. Lets please have some strong female roles that continue on in the next one (not just a villain who dies).

Spock's mother, Uhura, and who else?

I thought that Winona Ryder was seriously underutilized, but that was because of the character she was cast as.

... and Winona Kirk, who didn't die.

But you forget the Orion girl that Kirk was 'seeing' - though I presume she was killed when her ship got to Vulcan with the others (where as the Enterprise was saved by Sulu leaving the parking brake on).

I wouldn't say necessarily that the movie was sexist, in that it was a direct prequel to the original. However, I agree that there could have been more women cast in more prominent roles. Perhaps Captain Robau should have been a woman.

 

[Rusty0918]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

Well, I'll go on record saying that the miniskirts don't fit. There is no practical reason for them. However, I do admit there are a lot of folks who like them. I was gonna slam the movie on this, but I'm more lenient because we did get to see quite a few women in pants, and Michael Kapan did make the cocktail dresses more believable (although not very much).

I think they in fact undermine the women. Now off-duty, you can wear anything you want - mini-dresses, thongs, etc. But as a uniform, it kind of suggests that the women are dressed only to please the men. I can see why they did it, to some it's like Daisy Duke without her Daisy Dukes.

Yeah, it's sexist but not as bad I thought. I'd fear we'd be seeing some real skanks here, but that wasn't the case.

I will also remind the folks here that those cocktail dresses were not originally in Trek, and Roddenberry originally had a female second in command.

I think in the next movie they should do one of two things which would improve. One is, put another important female crewmember on board and give her a lieutenant commander rank or something (chief of security - but not one of the "cannonfodder" redshirts), and not put her in one of those cocktail dresses (have her in trousers). OR get rid of the cocktail dresses altogether (OK you can keep the cropped sleeves). Mix it up somewhat.

I'd prefer the former - we show a strong pretty female who is not regarded as a sex object, while at the same time you wet-dreamers can let your reproductive organs go wild on the background characters.

Here's the rule: Practicality first, sexiness second. There are right ways and there are wrong ways.

 

[Goliath]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

How so?

There were no women in leadership roles, I can't remember any females participating in any of the action scenes, there were barely any women on the bridge, Kirk groped Uhura, etc..

None of which proves sexism. You're forgetting that sexism is an ideology--that's why it's called sex-ism.

For any of that to constitute proof of sexism, you would have to show that it was the product of deliberate discrimination.

Consider: the most senior and highly-paid members of my university department are all women. Our department chair is a woman. One of my colleagues was recently appointed acting Dean of Arts--a woman. The last two professors we hired--also women.

Is that evidence of anti-male sexism? By your reasoning, it would seem so. But in the real world, no.

And Kirk groping Uhura? Come on--that was clearly an accident--a bit of slapstick humour.

A few weeks ago, in the hallway, I turned to point off to one side, without looking, and accidentally struck a female student in the breast. By your reasoning, that makes me sexist.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

There were no women in leadership roles, I can't remember any females participating in any of the action scenes, there were barely any women on the bridge, Kirk groped Uhura, etc..

You're not giving examples of sexism, you're talking about the number of women to fill a supposed quota. That's not sexism. And please, Kirk did not grope Uhura. Groping is an intentional act.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

But as a uniform, it kind of suggests that the women are dressed only to please the men.

That suggests miniskirts as a whole are there only to please the men. According to most female friends I know, it's rather the opposite: yes, it does attract attention, which pleases them, for they like attention. It also made them look good -- large legs etc. --, thus improving their mood. Some even said they felt more sure of themselves since not having to worry about their looks meant they could worry about other stuff.

I wouldn't not associate miniskirts with a uniform, no. But then again, I wouldn't associate jumpsuits with a uniform, either.

I'd prefer the former - we show a strong pretty female who is not regarded as a sex object, while at the same time you wet-dreamers can let your reproductive organs go wild on the background characters.

If you'd seen the reaction women have about Pine and Quinto, you'd say they where there for the visual appeal, not Zaldana.

The ratio of candy for the female crowd as opposed as the candy for the male crowd is quite uneven.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

Guys, I see that a thread on this exact topic that has been opened for several days has been resurrected this evening.

Since that thread was here first (started last month), I'm going to merge this one into that one.

Same topic. Different day.

Or really, the same day.

 

[T'Paul]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

A few weeks ago, in the hallway, I turned to point off to one side, without looking, and accidentally struck a female student in the breast. By your reasoning, that makes me sexist.

If you smiled at her afterward, like Kirk did, I would consider you to be sexist and a pervert.

 

[Goliath]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

Well, I'll go on record saying that the miniskirts don't fit. There is no practical reason for them.

Now, that I would agree with.

 

[Goliath]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

A few weeks ago, in the hallway, I turned to point off to one side, without looking, and accidentally struck a female student in the breast. By your reasoning, that makes me sexist.

If you smiled at her afterward, like Kirk did, I would consider you to be sexist and a pervert.

As it happens, in my case, she was the one who smiled--at my obvious embarrassment.

 

[Aragorn]

One poster on this board was offended that they supposedly took away everything Gene Roddenberry wanted in Sulu by making him capable of kicking ass. I guess the only way to counter the Asians-as-ass-kickers stereotype is to make him smart? Oh, wait, that's a stereotype too! If Sulu had been a total pussy who got killed immediately, that would broken the stereotypes for sure!

Reminds me of when someone said the Asian guy in Beetle Bailey was a racial stereotype because he was 10 times smarter and more efficient than the white characters.

 

[ST-One]

Re: Was the movie sexist?

The ratio of candy for the female crowd as opposed as the candy for the male crowd is quite uneven.

Unless you are gay... - Pine Yelchin Urban Cho Hemsworth