Original Crew = A Step Back?

[DaveyNY]

Sex and the City: The Movie, is not exactly what one would call a BIG ACTION, SUMMER BLOCK BUSTER.

But I didn't call it that. My point was to say that having a big action summer block buster won't always get you success or praise.

And while it wasn't released in the summer, Star Trek Nemesis was built to be a big action black buster that was aimed at getting a more mainstream audience into the theaters. That didn't work out too well.

Ya know, I practically handed you two pretty good examples to use a few posts ago, but you keep coming up with non-relevant ones to apparently try to justify your original premise, which was...

Gender Justification in this Particular Star Trek Movie...

Now, it seems to me, that you've moved on to something completely different..,

Gaining a Mainstream Audience...

Do you have some kind of relevant connection between these two topics that isn't readily apparent to me?

BTW:
My point with SATC and The Third Mummy Movie was, that you were comparing Apples to Oranges.

 

[Captain X]

Ok, that's great, but I still don't see how miniskirts change that equation. Sorry, I promise I'm not being deliberately obtuse.

Miniskirts are not professional uniform wear. I'd go as far to say that dresses, period, aren't professional, but that would just be my opinion. The point is that while there are still variations in male and female dress in the military, there aren't that many differences, and this is done to give female personnel the same type of professional wear as their male counterparts. So giving the women a short-sleeved (guess rank isn't as important for women) minidress with knee-highs while the guys get to wear something much more normal, along the lines of a shirt and slacks, is a giant leap backwards in gender equalization. So, unless you want to put dudes in the same uniform...

And I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that wouldn't look very professional either.

 

[DaveyNY]

Ok, that's great, but I still don't see how miniskirts change that equation. Sorry, I promise I'm not being deliberately obtuse.

Miniskirts are not professional uniform wear. I'd go as far to say that dresses, period, aren't professional, but that would just be my opinion. The point is that while there are still variations in male and female dress in the military, there aren't that many differences, and this is done to give female personnel the same type of professional wear as their male counterparts. So giving the women a short-sleeved (guess rank isn't as important for women) minidress with knee-highs while the guys get to wear something much more normal, along the lines of a shirt and slacks, is a giant leap backwards in gender equalization. So, unless you want to put dudes in the same uniform...

And I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that wouldn't look very professional either.

He looks really..., (oops, sorry...,) Very Pleased to be here in THAT outfit...

 

[npsf3000]

1) Women tend not to be placed in front line positions.

2) Psychological and Physiological differences make there be more male competition for roles such as, captain, helmsman, science officer, security, navigation, weapons officer etc.

3) Long term commitments can conflict with a woman's maternal instincts.

4) Testosterone.

I think people call discrimination a the call of an often imaginary hat.

Well it's nice that we have folks here who still look at women at face value by putting them in positions due to how they compare to men and NOT at what women are capable of doing. Judge a book by it's cover is not the most appropriate method of drawing a conclusion, especially when it comes to Star Trek's optimistic approach of the future where viewpoints like this have no relevance in a judgement of character.

And I will have you know that there are over fifty women in the military who bear the rank of Admiral and General in the United States military.

Well Excuse me... I mean obviously I'm sexist because I state true facts.

I never said a woman couldn't fulfil any of the bridge roles, but I gave reasonable evidence as to why there would be more males than females in those roles.

Especially in the USS Enterprise NCC1701-a/b where the conditions are particularly tough.

And yes, there may be over 50 women in the USA Military holding rank of general/admiral, how does that relate to the command crew of the enterprise?

I don't take women by their face value, I take everything by the data I know, the truth isn't sexist.

Edit:

The US Military personal are 15% women. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004600.html

Out of the main command crew, Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov... 14% are women.

To Have more women in command would actually be sexist towards men!

If you think there should be more women in total, go to TNG where there are more women as main characters.

 

[DaveyNY]

Ummm...

More-Often-Than-Not...

The Truth, can be Extremely Sexist...

 

[nx1701g]

Personally I would have liked an original crew, but this is growing on me.

 

[indranee]

Ok, that's great, but I still don't see how miniskirts change that equation. Sorry, I promise I'm not being deliberately obtuse.

Miniskirts are not professional uniform wear. I'd go as far to say that dresses, period, aren't professional, but that would just be my opinion. The point is that while there are still variations in male and female dress in the military, there aren't that many differences, and this is done to give female personnel the same type of professional wear as their male counterparts. So giving the women a short-sleeved (guess rank isn't as important for women) minidress with knee-highs while the guys get to wear something much more normal, along the lines of a shirt and slacks, is a giant leap backwards in gender equalization. So, unless you want to put dudes in the same uniform...

And I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that wouldn't look very professional either.

actually, speaking from a woman's POV, skorts (minis, not so much, but I'm assuming that in this case skorts are what we're talking about) are pretty comfortable.

slacks and shirt are "normal", huh?

 

[pookha]

1) Women tend not to be placed in front line positions.

2) Psychological and Physiological differences make there be more male competition for roles such as, captain, helmsman, science officer, security, navigation, weapons officer etc.

3) Long term commitments can conflict with a woman's maternal instincts.

4) Testosterone.

I think people call discrimination a the call of an often imaginary hat.

Well it's nice that we have folks here who still look at women at face value by putting them in positions due to how they compare to men and NOT at what women are capable of doing. Judge a book by it's cover is not the most appropriate method of drawing a conclusion, especially when it comes to Star Trek's optimistic approach of the future where viewpoints like this have no relevance in a judgement of character.

And I will have you know that there are over fifty women in the military who bear the rank of Admiral and General in the United States military.

Well Excuse me... I mean obviously I'm sexist because I state true facts.

I never said a woman couldn't fulfil any of the bridge roles, but I gave reasonable evidence as to why there would be more males than females in those roles.

Especially in the USS Enterprise NCC1701-a/b where the conditions are particularly tough.

And yes, there may be over 50 women in the USA Military holding rank of general/admiral, how does that relate to the command crew of the enterprise?

I don't take women by their face value, I take everything by the data I know, the truth isn't sexist.

Edit:

The US Military personal are 15% women. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004600.html

Out of the main command crew, Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov... 14% are women.

To Have more women in command would actually be sexist towards men!

If you think there should be more women in total, go to TNG where there are more women as main characters.

how does imposing data from a military service today prove something when applied to a multi species service centuries from now....

look how quickly things changed in real life in just the past 20 years.

 

[npsf3000]

Ummm...

More-Often-Than-Not...

The Truth, can be Extremely Sexist...

How could the truth e,.g. something like, 'men are better than women in soccer', be sexist?

 

[DaveyNY]

Perhaps you should go ask a Member of a Professional Female Soccer Team that question...?

Or go ask your Mom/Wife/Girl Friend, even...


(The Truth is often in the Eye of the Beholder...)

 

[npsf3000]

Well, actually I have done this before and they didn't care, they took it as life and got over it.

"Professional Female Soccer Team" - now who is sexist :P

Professional female sports people have publicly accepted that they will never be compete with their male counterparts in a variety of sports(ie i have watched tv).

Sexism is discrination because of gender...

It is not sexist to have a mainly male crew. It is sexist to not employ a female crew member just because she is female (unless like our modern military in which you can say a few combat oriented works and use that as a reason. Not sure where that falls).

 

[DrKurtMendel]

By the way before I begin, this post is not aimed at anyone specific, but the general negative crowd on here.

Quite frankly I'm severly disappointed... with the negativity towards this new film, and most of it is hypothetical. Just watch the frikin movie then decide; these guys aren't moron's, the studios have not just wasted millions of dollars, okay, alot of careful thought went into the development, pre-production, filming, post-production and marketing! Jeeeeeez, does anyone really think the people that make these films are clueless, they've been in the business alot longer than any of us... what you're telling me you have made movies for the last 10 years and no exactly what to do... fuck no!. 'IF!' once you have seen the movie and you don't like it, then criticise, but believe me you will be in the tiny minority. Hmmmm tell you what, if it fails maybe paramount will coming knocking on your door asking you how it should be done (ROLLS EYES).

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I feel so much better... again

 

[Captain X]

actually, speaking from a woman's POV, skorts (minis, not so much, but I'm assuming that in this case skorts are what we're talking about) are pretty comfortable.

BDUs and flightsuits are pretty comfy, too, and as an added bonus you can take someone wearing them seriously.

slacks and shirt are "normal", huh?

Yep, standard issue.

these guys aren't moron's, the studios have not just wasted millions of dollars, okay, alot of careful thought went into the development, pre-production, filming, post-production and marketing! Jeeeeeez, does anyone really think the people that make these films are clueless, they've been in the business alot longer than any of us...

Of course a lot of what Hollywood puts out is pretty bad, remakes especially. There seems to be a disconnect between what they think people will see as good and what they actually see as good. Same thing with dumbing down movies and TV shows because they underestimate the intelligence of their audience.

Hmmmm tell you what, if it fails maybe paramount will coming knocking on your door asking you how it should be done.

If only...

 

[DrKurtMendel]

Oh boy...

 

[Captain X]

Ziggy says you can't leap yet.

 

[DrKurtMendel]

'Why not Al?'

'Well Ziggy says there is a 50 percent chance you're here to save Star Trek, or...'

'Or what Al?'

'Or little Johnny is going to die'

Fade out.

New Scene

'How, how does he die Al, this is ridiculous?'

'Well so far Ziggy has found, that the Star Trek movie didn't rock his world, and so he ended up as a man-whore in Utah, and dies 17 years later while moving his friend out of the basement'.

'The basement?'

'Well he tripped over his novelty Starship Enterprise phone'.

'That killed him?'.

'No the washing machine he was trying to haul up the stairs did'.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

actually, speaking from a woman's POV, skorts (minis, not so much, but I'm assuming that in this case skorts are what we're talking about) are pretty comfortable.

BDUs and flightsuits are pretty comfy, too, and as an added bonus you can take someone wearing them seriously.

I can take a woman wearing a miniskirt seriously, which is really all that needs to be said at this point.

 

[Jeyl]

It is not sexist to have a mainly male crew. It is sexist to not employ a female crew member just because she is female.

Sounds exactly like what happened to Star Trek. Get rid of the Number One officer because she was a female. So in essence, we got the original crew due to sexism.

 

[ST-One]

Why else emphasize the sex and focus on the cliche of Kirk getting his mack on and being "the man" with the ladies? This is the stereotype of big budget summer action movies, and that's exactly what this movie is. And it doesn't even matter to a disturbingly large number of people. Some of them may even agree, but are afraid to say so, because they're afraid any negativity will scare away potential "mainstream" audience members and the movie will fail.

Just because there is a snippet of a sex-scene in the trailer doesn't mean that the movie will 'emphasize the sex' or that women won't be treated as equals to men.

And what exactly is bad about Star Trek being a 'big budget summer action movie' anyways?

 

[ST-One]

It is not sexist to have a mainly male crew. It is sexist to not employ a female crew member just because she is female.

Sounds exactly like what happened to Star Trek. Get rid of the Number One officer because she was a female. So in essence, we got the original crew due to sexism.

Well, McCoy says in one trailer that they've got no captain and no first officer... Maybe Pike and Number One are taken out at the same time...